tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post4397956533673672074..comments2024-03-26T22:42:06.412-07:00Comments on TAG Blog: Another example of why unions are obsolete?Steve Huletthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-10951369781500082012007-03-27T14:56:00.000-07:002007-03-27T14:56:00.000-07:00I worked for the Orphanage a few years back and th...I worked for the Orphanage a few years back and these arguements have been going around in circles for a long time. It's easy to shout form a Union, but here's the real problem. Most of the employees are project hires, so they get OT and all that but short term contracts. So, these contractors generally move around to many dif studios assuming they are talented. A big part of the problem is labour law doesn't support contractors very well anywhere in california, it's a very grey area. Being in a Union so you can work with one client, doesn't necessarilly help you when you want to work at one of the many other non union shops in the area. So, from a wider business perspective you may not be doing yourself any favors. Good animators / td's etc etc can find work. So do what i done, just don't work for them anymore then you don't have a problem. Eventually, no "actual" professionals will have anything to do with them, they will suffer. The O has had it's problems, the odd not so good supervisor ;) but they survive because there are a few really talented people they pay well who carry the whole studio and somehow get good work out of inexperienced people. But if your fresh frm school, the O has been a good place to get a start in the industry, as short lived as it has been for many of them. BTW, perhaps in legal land - labor law doesn't apply on federal property. But the EDD put the wind up them and is the only reason people now get paid overtime. So I suspect that's another grey area.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-24011095675056817612007-03-20T07:40:00.000-07:002007-03-20T07:40:00.000-07:00I'm all for the unions...but if the orphanage is s...I'm all for the unions...<BR/><BR/>but if the orphanage is such a sucky place to work for, then don't work there!<BR/><BR/>Artist should stand up for themselves,but it's much better standing up en masse...<BR/><BR/>Rufus.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-38018647485770154362007-03-19T21:05:00.000-07:002007-03-19T21:05:00.000-07:00Both scenarios could result in getting fired or bl...<I>Both scenarios could result in getting fired or blacklisted - so what's the difference?</I><BR/><BR/>Just to be clear, signing a rep card CANNOT get anyone fired or blacklisted, since studio management never knows who signs rep cards.<BR/><BR/>And to the last anonymous, even though you've indicated you have no interest in helping anyone else, the fact is, it's not for folks outside a non-union studio to help or not help. The only people who can decide to go union are the people inside the studio. So you don't really have a dilemma.Kevin Kochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14678528568112279975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-3345511950656943662007-03-19T17:52:00.000-07:002007-03-19T17:52:00.000-07:00Why should I be interested in helping anyone who d...Why should I be interested in helping anyone who doesn't have the stones to help themselves?<BR/>I know as a union we're all supposed to care, but frankly I know a lot more hacks than I do real talent... and the real talent doesn't need a union to tell their employers what they are and are not willing to put up with. <BR/>So, sure, with the union I'm helping the 3% that are talent (who don't need my help), but I'm also helping the 97% that are hacks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-31048460282329694702007-03-19T16:58:00.000-07:002007-03-19T16:58:00.000-07:00I don't see what the advantage is in organizing un...<I>I don't see what the advantage is in organizing union cards which relies heavily on the cooperation of your co-workers and the union itself over simply standing up for yourself by simply telling your employer that you won't work unpaid overtime.<BR/><BR/>Both scenarios could result in getting fired or blacklisted - so what's the difference?</I><BR/><BR/>One helps <I>you.</I> One helps <I>everybody</I>.<BR/><BR/>But the actual-world reality is, when artists are unhappy at a studio, they mostly quit and find a job at another studio.Steve Huletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-32111224079188570602007-03-19T16:55:00.000-07:002007-03-19T16:55:00.000-07:00Certainly the art staff aren't the ones being paid...<I>Certainly the art staff aren't the ones being paid $5.15 an hour, are they? Hell, my son makes twice that working in a sporting goods store.</I><BR/><BR/>You'd be surprised. I've seen artists doing animation for <I>free</I> at studios. I've seen artists walk away from $1500 jobs to work at $500 ($12.70 per hour, no benefits.)<BR/><BR/>The $500/week job was on a "really cool project." The $1500/week job wasn't. <BR/><BR/><I>And if they are the ones making that laughable wage, why the hell did they take the job in the first place? That's an insulting wage, even if you're just starting out.</I><BR/><BR/>Hey. It was a "really cool project," don't you know...Steve Huletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-45256123848201257762007-03-19T11:10:00.000-07:002007-03-19T11:10:00.000-07:00I don't see what the advantage is in organizing un...I don't see what the advantage is in organizing union cards which relies heavily on the cooperation of your co-workers and the union itself over simply standing up for yourself by simply telling your employer that you won't work unpaid overtime.<BR/><BR/>Both scenarios could result in getting fired or blacklisted - so what's the difference?<BR/><BR/>(that's a rhetorical question... I know what the textbook answer from the union reps will be)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-19829043426582083752007-03-19T10:47:00.000-07:002007-03-19T10:47:00.000-07:00Certainly the art staff aren't the ones being paid...Certainly the art staff aren't the ones being paid $5.15 an hour, are they? Hell, my son makes twice that working in a sporting goods store.<BR/><BR/>And if they are the ones making that laughable wage, why the hell did they take the job in the first place? That's an insulting wage, even if you're just starting out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-21583467311587211732007-03-18T15:40:00.000-07:002007-03-18T15:40:00.000-07:00Organizing is sometimes a tricky thing.Does an emp...Organizing is sometimes a tricky thing.<BR/><BR/>Does an employee risk layoff by handing out rep cards? Sometimes. And other times no retribution is handed out.<BR/><BR/>Do studios run anti-union campaigns against labor organizations? All the time, in a variety of ways. They do misinformation, work to build an anti-union culture, selectively weed out "trouble makers."<BR/><BR/>When there's a union election coming up, they often hire "union busting" law firms that specialize in defeating elections. Some of the golden oldies are: "Hey, we're family here!"... "The union will charge big dues and initiation fees!"..."We'll have to put in a time clock!"... "You make more money being non-union!"... etc.<BR/><BR/>Many times, artists just "go with the flow." If it's a unionized place, they go along. If it's a non-union shop, they go along. The fact that "the bss" doesn't want to go union is often enough to tamp down organizing drives.<BR/><BR/>In my experience, unionization comes when some "tipping point" happens: a) A big number of union employees come aboard who want their union pension and health benefits, b) the company slashes wages and/or benefits to its non-union crew, c) a key employee or two want to unionize.<BR/><BR/>I'll confess that doing this as long as I have, I've seen so many different scenarios where studios "go union," that I'm hard-pressed to catalogue them all.<BR/><BR/>I've also been involved in spectacularly unsuccessful organizing campaigns. They're not pleasant to go through, but they <I>are</I> educational.Steve Huletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-3649133085042496582007-03-17T20:16:00.000-07:002007-03-17T20:16:00.000-07:00"is it not possible that the studio could (at leas...<I>"is it not possible that the studio could (at least threaten to) fire anyone they suspect of pro-union activity."</I><BR/><BR/>Are there any Art Babbitt's at The Orphanage ? (geez... are there any Art Babbitt's <I>anywhere</I> in our industry these days ? rhetorical question, never mind...) One can only hope someone will have the backbone to step forward. That situation at The Orphanage just sounds so wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-52311538143120652252007-03-17T19:46:00.000-07:002007-03-17T19:46:00.000-07:00In regard to artists at the Orphanage simply signi...In regard to artists at the Orphanage simply signing rep cards, is it not possible that the studio could (at least threaten to) fire anyone they suspect of pro-union activity before any such election could be held? My understanding is that it is indeed illegal under Calif Labor law to fire anyone for such activity, but since they are exempt, what's to stop them?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-18957444323871079572007-03-17T19:39:00.000-07:002007-03-17T19:39:00.000-07:00Has anyone tried to organize these people? What a...Has anyone tried to organize these people? What about trying to apply the Davis Bacon Act to their plight? Anything to deal with this BS.djhlightshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10864568816457232014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-81207683649971669082007-03-17T16:30:00.000-07:002007-03-17T16:30:00.000-07:00I hear more complaints from the folks at Orphanage...I hear more complaints from the folks at Orphanage than from any other facility in the world. If any place needed the union, that would be it.<BR/><BR/>So, if Orphanage signed cards, that works the exact same way if they were down in LA? I thought you guys were stuck in the LA area with ILM being some kind of weird exception.?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-33354742558687226332007-03-17T11:52:00.000-07:002007-03-17T11:52:00.000-07:00ILM has a contract with IATSE local 16, and being ...ILM has a contract with IATSE local 16, and being on federal property wouldn't negate any of the union provisions, even if it does negate state labor law.<BR/><BR/>As for the Orphanage, the simple way to stop any such nonsense would be for the animators to sign rep cards, vote to go union, and get a union contract that protects them. The ironic result would likely be a happier, healthier workforce, and a more productive and successful studio.Kevin Kochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14678528568112279975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-5523829332124246722007-03-17T09:20:00.000-07:002007-03-17T09:20:00.000-07:00I believe that ILM is now located on the grounds o...I believe that ILM is now located on the grounds of the Presidio. Does this mean that they are not subject to California's labor laws?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-64940148428677571662007-03-17T03:27:00.000-07:002007-03-17T03:27:00.000-07:00Great..now that they've all seen this, more Calif....Great..now that they've all seen this, more Calif. studios can try to take advantage of that (previously) little known loophole.<BR/>TAG/IA had better be powerful enough to stop them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com