tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post6862925423173394267..comments2024-03-26T22:42:06.412-07:00Comments on TAG Blog: The latest vfx scam: Artists paying all the taxesSteve Huletthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-31097332097763265402011-11-07T10:09:15.070-08:002011-11-07T10:09:15.070-08:00Hmmm interesting article....I dunno what to say bu...Hmmm interesting article....I dunno what to say but it is rather fishy...I've been a freelancer for 10+ years in NYC...I have my own LLC and pay for my own workers comp....but what I really don't get is why don't the studios just tell us to do that instead? With your own LLC and paying for your own workers comp you still get your 1099 and you act as your own company which you handle your own payroll. Is it cause the studios don't want to deal with telling the freelancers that so they can just pass us along to these shadey EOR companies?<br />Maybe it's just easier on their end and they can keep using the freelance artists without having to wait on them to incorporate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-7141712026678617952011-10-16T08:57:37.539-07:002011-10-16T08:57:37.539-07:00The whole dec=bate about asking fore 25% more is r...The whole dec=bate about asking fore 25% more is ridiculous. If a company were willing to pay an artist 25% more than they would've been willing to pay the artists taxes. The reason why they don't want to pay the taxes is not because it's troublesome, but because they want to get away with pay LESS money. So the chances that they will agree to a higher rate is a complete BS argument.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-42113878617265759012011-10-15T21:35:01.533-07:002011-10-15T21:35:01.533-07:00These "up your rate" comments or those s...These "up your rate" comments or those saying it isn't a big deal ; are either... An accountant at the studio or working at the EOR themselves.<br /><br />If you are a freelancer and charge $50 an hour, and you tell the studio you now have to charge $70 to cover the additional taxes the EOR is taking out, they are not going to do it. <br /><br />Obviously spoken by someone with an agenda. Certainly not a freelancer. If they are, they need a few more brain cells.<br /><br />The studios are trying to pay lower hourly for the jobs they are low balling to get. Do you really think they are going to pay more in hourly rate - effectively negating the advantage to begin with? Get real.<br /><br /><br />Can't wait until the EORs are gone once their illegal activities are exposed. Also can't wait for the studios who are going to get hit with penalties.<br /><br /><br />I do feel bad for the accountants at the EORs who will have to find a new sucker to fleece.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-7550954353890266572011-10-14T13:53:41.537-07:002011-10-14T13:53:41.537-07:00BTW, this has nothing to do with emotions...this h...BTW, this has nothing to do with emotions...this has to do with money being stolen from artists wallets. This has to do with you thieves stealing my entire rent for the month from me! That is illegal and quite immoral. How do you people sleep at night?Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06577821262127433886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-49102182991354320412011-10-14T13:43:36.728-07:002011-10-14T13:43:36.728-07:00Thanks Alanna, er I mean anonymous. Firstly, good...Thanks Alanna, er I mean anonymous. Firstly, good luck convincing a company to up your rate by 25%! Secondly, if I could convince a company to pay me an additional 25% do you really think its fair that I shouldn't get any of it???? Why would I jack my rate up just to pay that companies taxes. How about trying a little dose of reality.<br /><br />Lets try this....you go ahead and pay my income taxes for this year.....if its too much for you to pay your own and mine, why don't you just ask for more money from Yurcor??? Come on, your worth it, right??Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06577821262127433886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-67783878705965491972011-10-14T13:41:27.479-07:002011-10-14T13:41:27.479-07:00I've worked at the Mill NYC....agree with uppi...I've worked at the Mill NYC....agree with upping the rate to break even. It is still a pain in the ass to pay my own liability/workmens comp but whatever. More importantly look at this monkey wrench:<br /><br />http://mgau.org/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-57484444013739250472011-10-14T09:43:37.951-07:002011-10-14T09:43:37.951-07:00Interesting anonymous comments as usual.
Once aga...Interesting anonymous comments as usual.<br /> Once again Steve Kaplan is on the ball exposing unethical/illegal practices and artists like Richard are coming forward and refusing to be a bailout plan. VES 2.0's site could use a section for stories like this. If there is one? I'm having trouble finding it. Maybe someone can enlighten me.Dave Randhttp://www.daverand.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-27473681898827242072011-10-14T09:22:08.859-07:002011-10-14T09:22:08.859-07:00Kind of have to agree with Anon above you Richard....Kind of have to agree with Anon above you Richard. I am a fellow free lancer and let's say you where making $4000 before Yurcor. If you up your rate and are still making $4000 after what difference does it really make. And I've been working as a freelancer for over 10 years now and if you are a good person and talented then there will always be work. No one forced you to work for The Mill. If you aren't happy with the rate they offer then it's your responsibility to not accept the job. Sounds like this is a personal issue. Sorry you are having so much trouble. I can relate but let's be logical here and not just act out of emotions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-81654287174768538262011-10-14T06:30:31.287-07:002011-10-14T06:30:31.287-07:00Btw, your "crazy math" is ENTIRELY CRAZY...Btw, your "crazy math" is ENTIRELY CRAZY!!! To say that charging a company more so they can steal more makes NO SENSE. First we aren't talking $4 or $6, we are talking thousands. Your example is saying that if I charge 25% more, I will return 25% less but "break even"??? Firstly, that is twisted! Secondly...we don't make $4/ hour!!!!! I make between $50 and $60 / hour. So your telling me, because you plan to rip me off I now have to raise my rate to $65 to $75 to make $50 to $60????? Do you see how ludacris that is???? Can you do me a favor and explain that to the companies you shill for.<br /><br />I understand that you aren't an artist. You are an accountant. Your job is to squeeze everyone as hard as you can to lower your bottom line and end up black. But we have to fight, every job to get our rates. I do turn down jobs that come short. But that is when they tell me upfront they can't afford me....not when they lie to me and steal behind my back!!<br /><br />I told you in my email that I would be a part in changing this practice and I meant it....wheels are in motion.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06577821262127433886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-43006846750516511052011-10-14T06:14:04.567-07:002011-10-14T06:14:04.567-07:00Obviously anonymous works for yurcor (I'm gues...Obviously anonymous works for yurcor (I'm guessing it's Alanna!). Your bs misinformation is fooling nobody! The only one this fraudulent system benefits is the company that is evading taxes as a result!! I have been freelancing for 4 years now, and I have NEVER seen this before! Most companies that file you as w4 follow the law and pay their taxes. You say the alternative is them not hiring you....are you mental??? They would actually not hire artist to do their work over just paying their taxes??? Sounds completely illogical to me! Stop trolling this blog and let actual artists chime in. You are coming off a bit like Bernie Maoff in a retirement blog!Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06577821262127433886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-56615715327414231472011-10-13T19:16:02.864-07:002011-10-13T19:16:02.864-07:00Ready: Let's say you normally make $4 ! With Y...Ready: Let's say you normally make $4 ! With Yurcor taxes you get back $2... You raise your rate to $6 ! With Yurcor taxes you get back $4 !!! <br /><br />Which is the same amount you where making originally ! That crazy math problem works automagically :) <br /><br />If you feel like your rate is not being met then, let me think about this one really hard, I KNOW ! Don't work there !!! <br /><br />>herp< >derp<Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-23465746725736639452011-10-13T17:11:40.494-07:002011-10-13T17:11:40.494-07:00Reading these chains of comments, really makes me ...Reading these chains of comments, really makes me understand why as a freelancer we are dealing with the situation we are. I am almost as bad to even reply to such nonsense. It just really makes me sick. You all are acting like children going back and forth talking nothing, its embarrassing that I am even apart of such a group of “grown ups”. I have freelance for over 25 years, and never experienced such immaturity.If I were these employer companies I would be laughing at the ignorance of these statements. I did get a chance to use Yurcor, and though I prefer to be paid as a 1099, and handle all the tax and filing myself, I understand the need for the service. You should all be ashamed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-17954845843380839342011-10-13T16:23:36.800-07:002011-10-13T16:23:36.800-07:00Okay, both my husband and I have had to sign up wi...Okay, both my husband and I have had to sign up with Yurcor, he also had so sign up with MBO to get paid. We are in NYC and have an S-corp, and as previous commenter mentioned, Yurcor makes you get roughly $800-worth of insurance that you most certainly do not need (worker's comp, liability) just so that you can get paid by them. Not only that, but in our experience, the payment process lasted many, many months, i.e., we'd submit invoices, and get paid like, three-to-four months later because, as Yurcor claimed, they had to make adjustments. There was even a paycheck that they conveniently 'lost.' They've always seemed rather sheisty, I always knew it was illegal to charge employees taxes that their employers should have been paying, and I really hope Yurcor get penalized. Out in NY, it's very hard to get anyone to pay attention to these things because we don't have a union or any other organization to deal with these things. It's every freelancer for themselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-27480335091622705192011-10-13T15:04:02.224-07:002011-10-13T15:04:02.224-07:00Freelancer,
I'm fully aware of the legality ...Freelancer, <br /><br />I'm fully aware of the legality and practice of Loaning Out employees. Before my illustrious career in Organized Labor, I once worked for Apple One and was "Loaned Out" to offices around Los Angeles as an assistant/office boy. I negotiated my rate with Apple One. I assumed Apple One charged the <b>OFFICES</b> I worked at the extra money to cover the costs of my employment as well as a profit for themselves.<br /><br />While I welcome The Mill and any other foreign company to open offices in our fair burg to gainfully employ artists, I think it goes without saying that I expect them to follow the rules and regulations for employers in this country. One of which clearly states, employers shall pay employer taxes.<br /><br />Comments like yours make me groan and want to cry.Steven Kaplanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13630148057269319887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-44737811384890412062011-10-13T09:53:14.797-07:002011-10-13T09:53:14.797-07:00I've wroked as a freelancer before. That studi...I've wroked as a freelancer before. That studio did not collect any taxes on my behalf, I paid them later at tax season,that's the norm. This situation is different, and from a couple of the comments, sounds like an illegal procedure. So laugh all you want, but smells like something rotten in Denmark...el diablonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-70078731946629687252011-10-13T09:07:52.398-07:002011-10-13T09:07:52.398-07:00The Mill has been one of the most easy going, upfr...The Mill has been one of the most easy going, upfront and honest studios I have worked for. Without this solution, they would not be able to utilize us freelancers.. would you be happy if they just did not use us all together, yeah that would be great! At least then you would have something new to complain about not having a job. I do understand the employer of record service, and have grown to love it. Take some time to understand it, rather then try to preach legal jumbo. Its a service that has been in place for over 35 years, you think it would have occurred to you that perhaps you are misunderstanding the logistics of the service? These post make me laugh. - Freelancer in CAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-68112953877694740572011-10-13T06:52:54.561-07:002011-10-13T06:52:54.561-07:00wouldn't it be great if all of this energy was...wouldn't it be great if all of this energy was focused towards the source of the confusion...specifically the state and federal 1099 contractor definitions? the available documentation states that a true 1099 contractor is someone who (i'm summarizing here) operates under their own means, utilizing their own equipment, under their own schedule....essentially a small percentage of the artists we are speaking of. theoretically, in the current economic climate and with governing bodies in need of revenue, federal, state and local officials have chosen to enforce this definition to the letter and collect payroll taxes from those individuals in violation. rather than inefficiently chasing the individuals however, they have cracked down on the production companies who had been paying them as contractors rather than employees. This status quo has been mutually beneficial to both the production companies and the artists for a long time, to the (perceived) detriment of state and federal tax revenues, ergo the infamous "audits". so rather than fighting the production companies who are trying to protect themselves from a sudden surge in tax liability (which in keeping with the sh*t rolls down hill truism will inevitably demand the dreaded decrease in artist rates we're discussing above before there is any increase in client bids), rather than fighting the EOR companies looking to make a quick buck from the current climate, why not demand a re-evaluation of the independent contractor code. in all the latest political speak of the need to protect small business and create jobs, it seems appropriate to broaden the definition of a true independent contractor to include the likes of the VFX artist...those "travelling" professionals who utilize a production company's facilities and equipment to provide a specialized service. of course this could be a dreamstate.....political solutions as opposed to industry in-fighting? pee-shawAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-32911718262487688012011-10-12T21:46:19.044-07:002011-10-12T21:46:19.044-07:00My checks say "GEP, Inc." Am I getting s...My checks say "GEP, Inc." Am I getting scammed too?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-76495567645337259592011-10-12T21:02:30.223-07:002011-10-12T21:02:30.223-07:00"negotiate your rate higher"
Sure.. Jus..."negotiate your rate higher"<br /><br />Sure.. Just so you can get taxed more? The Mill low balls artists anyways. I don't think would work too well.<br /><br />They do this so they can underbid everyone else on work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-53425145264143913072011-10-12T20:25:52.619-07:002011-10-12T20:25:52.619-07:00Another thought, knowing this is 100% against the ...Another thought, knowing this is 100% against the law, why not <a href="mailto:skaplan@animationguild.org?subject=I%20want%20to%20help%20against%20Yurcor" rel="nofollow">drop me a line</a> and help make this a moot point?Steven Kaplanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13630148057269319887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-61700623984641716992011-10-12T19:21:29.032-07:002011-10-12T19:21:29.032-07:00Just a thought, if you know you are going to get m...Just a thought, if you know you are going to get more taxed deducted why not just negotiate your rate higher to compensate for the difference ???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-80890812007983053982011-10-12T18:21:26.960-07:002011-10-12T18:21:26.960-07:00The Mill NYC Also Forces you into Yurcor. The thin...The Mill NYC Also Forces you into Yurcor. The thing that is further messed up, is that even if you have a fully working S-corp, they make you sign up with Yurcor and eat the 2.5%fee. Yurcor then requires you to have both workers comp and liability insurance set up, even though I have been exempted by workers comp them selves. All this for Yurcor to cut you a check to your S-corp. Basically almost $900 of insurance expenses, then the 2.5% fee over your invoice, + don't forget all the costs to running your own S-corp to get away from these type of companies in the first place.<br />WTF!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-89434146840974789932011-10-12T09:29:26.578-07:002011-10-12T09:29:26.578-07:00Here is what I don't get... the laws are very ...Here is what I don't get... the laws are very clear about supervision and such determining status as employee yet here we have EOR companies that are essentially acting as payroll companies (they don't make deals, set rates, supervise) yet they are to be considered the employer? IMHO it's a blatant dodge of independent contractor laws and then labor laws (as I have heard they are paying day rates or OT but not after 8 hours). If they are the employer shouldn't they be on the hook for OT not paid in the past?<br /><br />All of this stuff is very hard for the individual being offered a job to fight - another reason we need unity and a voice as a group.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03412425719125401808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-86979544060485494932011-10-12T08:58:54.734-07:002011-10-12T08:58:54.734-07:00We are getting the sense that this isn't just ...We are getting the sense that this isn't just a Los Angeles issue and that it has taken place for some time. We were made aware of MBO's practices and wrote about them <a href="http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2010/03/organize-mbo.html" rel="nofollow">in this forum</a> back in early 2010. <br /><br />The more we are made aware of what is going on, the more we can help. We are interested in speaking to artists working under this condition directly and getting copies of paycheck stubs as well as meeting with our attorney.<br /><br />As always, we can help only as long as the artists want it. We can not pursue Yurcor without effected artists willing to stand with us.Steven Kaplanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13630148057269319887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-30307621730961845502011-10-12T07:53:54.698-07:002011-10-12T07:53:54.698-07:00Here's the thing. It's pretty obvious some...Here's the thing. It's pretty obvious some smaller facilities are doing this to cut corners. If it was legal the big facilities like Sony,dd,rhythm, and ilm they would have used these same services ages ago. None of them do from my knowledge and my guess is if they did, they run the risk of some big legal trouble.VFX Soldierhttp://vfxsoldier.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com