tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post1068096573398808814..comments2024-03-26T22:42:06.412-07:00Comments on TAG Blog: The Dreams of WorkersSteve Huletthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-37200973925747002872008-08-14T22:27:00.000-07:002008-08-14T22:27:00.000-07:00Brief history of the '41 strike:The Screen Cartoon...Brief history of the '41 strike:<BR/><BR/>The Screen Cartoonists Guild had already organized most of the rest of the animation industry; Disney was the holdout.<BR/><BR/>There are tipping points in any organizing action, and W.D.P.'s came about when Walt gave a patronizing, bullying speech to his staff on February 11 1941.<BR/><BR/>That, as much as anything helped to trigger the strike. The irony is, if he had just leveled with his employees and told them what desperate economic shape the studio was in, they likely wouldn't have embarked on a long job action.<BR/><BR/>But he didn't, and Disney's went union. And yeah, there were commies in the Scfreen Cartoonists Guild. Joe Grant told me so himself. But then Joe shrugged and growled:<BR/><BR/>"But Walt hired them."<BR/><BR/>(There are a plethora of books that cover the Disney strike. A couple of good ones: "Drawing the Line" by Tom Sito; "An Animated Man" by Mike Barrier.) <BR/><BR/>Having organized a few cartoon studios in my time, I can tell you that its corporate missteps and abuses that power organizing forward. It's that way now, it was that way in 1941.)Steve Huletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-21320357788096679792008-08-14T21:47:00.000-07:002008-08-14T21:47:00.000-07:00Wow...Joe McCarthy's posting on a union message bo...Wow...Joe McCarthy's posting on a union message board - I thought he was dead along with his ideas. I guess not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-21976349685260770412008-08-14T21:21:00.000-07:002008-08-14T21:21:00.000-07:00That's an interesting comment, given that the main...That's an interesting comment, given that the main union organizer in Hollywood at that time really WAS a member of the Communist Party. And no, I'm not talking about Art Babbitt. Do your research before making cliche remarks, 'kay?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-69295722765914075852008-08-14T12:48:00.000-07:002008-08-14T12:48:00.000-07:00Yeah! Those commie bastards had no business striki...Yeah! Those commie bastards had no business striking. They were living in Nirvana!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-81119913575482109862008-08-14T10:33:00.000-07:002008-08-14T10:33:00.000-07:00*Wow...sounds like the same quaint philosophy Walt...*Wow...sounds like the same quaint philosophy Walt had before everyone told him to shove it and formed a union.*<BR/><BR/>Walt never did any such thing. He gave raises to his employees before he raised his own salary. His studio had air conditioning (extremely rare in those days), recreational areas, and all an animator had to do to get a snack was pick up the phone, and a WAITER would bring it to him. Those were the days at Disney before the strike. Walt took the strike personally precisely because of the more-than-decent way he handled his employees, particularly in comparison to the way animators in rival studios were treated (remember Termite Terrace)? Walt mishandled the strike, no doubt, but it was because of hurt feelings and resentment, not greed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-64337380567393187572008-08-12T13:55:00.000-07:002008-08-12T13:55:00.000-07:00You're right about your calculations. If we were ...You're right about your calculations. If we were to sell it right now, it would be about 700k. Payments are somewhere around 3100 a month. If it is a month we need extra cash, we can pay interest only at 2200. And yes, we are paying that with a kid. Taxes are about 7k a year. You make sacrifices. We don't go out buying expensive cars/boats/motorcycles or snorting coke. It's possible. We have neighbors making less than we do and their houses are just as nice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-79860165284797200642008-08-12T09:20:00.000-07:002008-08-12T09:20:00.000-07:00That's hard to believe. A 2500 sq foot house in t...That's hard to believe. A 2500 sq foot house in the bay area (even nasty areas of Oakland) has to go for about 650-900k. 2500 is HUGE. Monthly payments on that (depending) has to be around 3200-5000k a month.<BR/><BR/>You are NOT paying that while making less than 100k family income with a kid. <BR/><BR/>Please dont take offense, but I just find it hard to believe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-75050001583929040342008-08-12T09:08:00.000-07:002008-08-12T09:08:00.000-07:00Many of the good animators at Pixar are getting pa...Many of the good animators at Pixar are getting paid over 100k. I don't care what some people say, that is a good salary. Even in the Bay Area. My wife and I (and our daughter) live 10 minutes away from Emeryville in a beautiful 2500 sq. ft house in a great neighborhood and are comfortable. Our combined income is less than 100k right now (she works a couple days a week and I have my <100k job). And we even bought this house several years ago when the prices were quite a bit higher.<BR/><BR/>Do I wish I made more money? Yeah, of course. Am I living in a ratty house with our sub 100 income? No. Are we able to have a good life with our kid? Yes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-6518272116624318402008-08-11T22:01:00.000-07:002008-08-11T22:01:00.000-07:00"We don't have to pay you what you're worth becaus..."We don't have to pay you what you're worth because we're Pixar Goddamn it and you should pay us for the honor of working here!"<BR/><BR/>Wow...sounds like the same quaint philosophy Walt had before everyone told him to shove it and formed a union.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-472493985716268402008-08-11T21:37:00.000-07:002008-08-11T21:37:00.000-07:00Perhaps. However, there is another dynamic in pla...Perhaps. However, there is another dynamic in play. I personally know some big, very well-known names at Pixar--animators whose work is absolutely stellar, first-rate, showcased as examples of brilliant animation. I won't mention their names, but they are people you have heard of, if you follow animation. And they are paid surprisingly little, quite a bit less than you would imagine, considerably less than they can get elsewhere.<BR/><BR/>Why?<BR/><BR/>Because Pixar is Pixar. No other studio can offer that experience--working on films that are universally admired and respected. While some excellent animators get fed up and leave, many others stay because they know that no other studio makes films the way Pixar does. Why work on projects that just aren't as good, even for more money? And of course, Pixar knows this.<BR/><BR/>So economics does play a role, but there are other factors as well, that are skewing things "unnaturally".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-42185655090524973512008-08-11T20:08:00.000-07:002008-08-11T20:08:00.000-07:00Usually if an artist is low balled it's because th...Usually if an artist is low balled it's because the studio doesn't feel they're worth more and wants to save the big money for a more important player and/or they feel the artist doesn't have a lot of options - maybe because of that artist's abilities or the state of the industry. Sometimes budget enters into it as well, but that usually applies more to low budget pics and small studios.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-15138402554575482082008-08-11T16:00:00.000-07:002008-08-11T16:00:00.000-07:00If a studio doesn't feel someone is up to snuff, t...If a studio doesn't feel someone is up to snuff, they'll often low ball them to see if they can get some cheap labor. Supply and demand.. it always boils down to it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-90310931479731555502008-08-11T15:19:00.000-07:002008-08-11T15:19:00.000-07:00aaah, but if they didnt think I was that good, the...aaah, but if they didnt think I was that good, then why make an offer in the first place?<BR/><BR/>No, your answer to my post only reflects your bias. Did it ever ocurr to you that the studio was being cheap? Could that be the answer?<BR/><BR/>Disney is well known for being cheap. Even David Letterman has made comments about that.<BR/><BR/>Rufus.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-28602756672259432462008-08-11T09:18:00.000-07:002008-08-11T09:18:00.000-07:00100k, yes. 50k? It's a lot harder, especially if...100k, yes. 50k? It's a lot harder, especially if you're the primary breadwinner in the family.<BR/><BR/>It also depends if you're single or have a family.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-67533194692526321162008-08-11T08:34:00.000-07:002008-08-11T08:34:00.000-07:00While I agree that talent should be paid as much a...While I agree that talent should be paid as much as possible, I almost have to laugh when people tell us how no one can survive in LA or SF on 100k a year. Or 52k a year for that matter. There are millions of people doing so everyday. And no, I'm not suggesting you live in the slums or in a run down apartment.<BR/><BR/>You don't have to live in East LA or the crappy areas of Oakland with the salary that Pixar or Disney pays you. If a single person or a couple is having a hard time surviving on 100k a year, maybe you need a lesson in controlling your finances.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-80177170850868264112008-08-10T08:32:00.000-07:002008-08-10T08:32:00.000-07:00Anyone knows if PDIs payscale is any better than P...Anyone knows if PDIs payscale is any better than Pixars?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-75165788778058957752008-08-10T06:58:00.000-07:002008-08-10T06:58:00.000-07:00I agree. Its business and with the current curve o...I agree. Its business and with the current curve on the past films I really doubt they would want to go in and change the pay scales anytime soon. Enjoy what you do but more importantly enjoy where you live doing it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-36518422557823650932008-08-09T21:47:00.000-07:002008-08-09T21:47:00.000-07:00The cold, hard reality is that they have no need o...The cold, hard reality is that they have no need or reason to at the present time.<BR/><BR/>When you bid on eBay, do you go for the second-lowest price? Or pay more than your low winning bid about for "ethical" reasons? Of course not.<BR/><BR/>Like it or not, this is business.<BR/><BR/>KGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-33010916876641798902008-08-09T15:08:00.000-07:002008-08-09T15:08:00.000-07:00As purty as Wall-E is that ain't 180 mill on the s...As purty as Wall-E is that ain't 180 mill on the screen (especially with low low artist salaries). AND if it were I think the public would be willing to accept a little less polish and not say a peep one way or the other. <BR/>Pixar RAISE the artists' alaries. Shame on you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-6683913171273053952008-08-09T14:21:00.000-07:002008-08-09T14:21:00.000-07:00That $180 mil a film includes those salaries, gang...That $180 mil a film includes those salaries, gang. Imagine what the films would cost if they were paying more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-15068951206446880352008-08-09T13:37:00.000-07:002008-08-09T13:37:00.000-07:00> When you spend 180 mill a pic you> can'...> When you spend 180 mill a pic you<BR/>> can't tell me there isn't money to <BR/>> pay at LEAST union scale. <BR/><BR/>Makes you wonder where all that money is going. :-) Their production process could be more efficient, irrespective of nice visual results. <BR/><BR/>Success all too often masks problems that come around to bite you later. Just look at what happened to Disney in the 90's.<BR/><BR/>KGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-46355476860616579682008-08-09T13:16:00.000-07:002008-08-09T13:16:00.000-07:00I an effort to keep shareholders happy by keeping ...I an effort to keep shareholders happy by keeping wages down I wonder if Lasseter's slary is barely a living wage?<BR/>When you spend 180 mill a pic you can't tell me there isn't money to pay at LEAST union scale. <BR/>It astounds me that the company EVRYONE loves and wants to work for are running a sweatshop. I wonder what type of publicity that would engender.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-51443515239912212902008-08-09T11:16:00.000-07:002008-08-09T11:16:00.000-07:00"And yes, I realize that as a private company, the..."And yes, I realize that as a private company, they are not obligated to "share" anything."<BR/><BR/>Pixar isn't a private company and hasn't been for a long time. They were publicly traded before their sale to Disney, and of course, Disney is the most public of companies. As such, they have a responsibility to provide a return on their shareholder's investment, and one big way to do that is hold down costs. The biggest cost to any company is salaries and benefits.<BR/><BR/>Pixar is far from the only company guilty of this though. ILM and Lucas Arts have paid low salaries for years for exactly the same reason - people will climb over their own grandmother to work there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-4376010986179546372008-08-09T11:05:00.000-07:002008-08-09T11:05:00.000-07:00I've talked to different Pixarians, some with long...I've talked to different Pixarians, some with long tenures.<BR/><BR/>Their story is, Pixar isn't extravagant with wages. And after a few years, many mid-level staffers get tired of the parsimony and move on. One said to me:<BR/><BR/>"I was there for years. Finally you just get sick of their reasons and excuses why they can't pay you more, or give you a decent raise, so you leave."<BR/><BR/>I dream, of course, about getting the place under contract. So far only a dream.Steve Huletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-66290382250249059272008-08-09T07:38:00.000-07:002008-08-09T07:38:00.000-07:00That may be why Pixar seems to have such a high tu...That may be why Pixar seems to have such a high turn over rate. For some people its not about the cool shirts and hidden rooms, its about where can I live and enjoy doing it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com