tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post6592145302232324325..comments2024-03-29T02:18:35.303-07:00Comments on TAG Blog: The Piracy ThingSteve Huletthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comBlogger94125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-25820954399085289772009-11-01T17:47:34.680-08:002009-11-01T17:47:34.680-08:00I still haven't recouped my misguided investme...I still haven't recouped my misguided investment in the payphone industry and now I have to worry about something called "piracy" hurting dvd sales ?!?<br /><br />We should go back to horses and buggies. Nice and safe. No change is good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-39059372693337972012009-10-25T17:15:23.591-07:002009-10-25T17:15:23.591-07:00Arlo, you've still not responded to my comment...Arlo, you've still not responded to my comment above. Thanks.gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-9103553417230960202009-10-25T16:32:20.685-07:002009-10-25T16:32:20.685-07:00Hahaha...Arlo are you so ignorant or vain to think...Hahaha...Arlo are you so ignorant or vain to think that all the anonymous posts are coming from one person?<br /><br />As one of the anonymous I know I didn't write all of the anonymous posts. Unlike you, I have a life and have better things to do with it than spend so much time writing long winded, ridiculous posts. <br /><br />I do have to agree with some of the earlier posts though...you are rude to this web-site's hosts and without the slightest ability to bolster an argument against why piracy is bad.<br /><br />Get a clue and stand by your word a nd take off!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-38099754508253409652009-10-25T14:28:27.347-07:002009-10-25T14:28:27.347-07:00More ad hominem attacks from the only member of th...More ad hominem attacks from the only member of this discussion that has continually proven how juvenile and ignorant of the issue they are with every post.<br />The only decision you have made in this thread that borders on intelligent is to post anonymously. Now throw some more insults, obfuscate the real issue, and feign offense in yet <i>another</i> post.<br /><br />Nothing I could say would be as humiliating to you as what you continually post in here.Arlonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-59762597302579865962009-10-25T11:02:39.694-07:002009-10-25T11:02:39.694-07:00Douchebag is too nice for Arlo...I'd go with d...Douchebag is too nice for Arlo...I'd go with douchenozzle.<br /><br />No one is implying it's rude to point out there may be other reasons besides piracy for lower revenues - though that's not what this thread was about - it's Arlo's attitude towards Steve and Kevin (the owners of the blog) and his clear disrespectful behavior and snarky comments.<br />Bad internet etiquette - especially on a professionals' site.<br />Be nasty as you want to other posters, but NOT to the owners of the site.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-58779591121260376782009-10-24T20:39:20.098-07:002009-10-24T20:39:20.098-07:00Good riddance.Good riddance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-75968614966001762782009-10-24T17:26:40.297-07:002009-10-24T17:26:40.297-07:00I'm rude to point out that Netflix, movies on ...I'm rude to point out that Netflix, movies on demand, iTunes and the like are CONVENIENTLY left out of the equation that dropping profits from dvd sales must be the result of piracy.<br /><br />We can all sit around and wonder about the recent development on the newswire that major studios now want to renegotiate their deal with Netflix.<br /><br /><br />This is all happening because i'm a 'dummy head' right? Take your ad-hominem, inverted reasoning to a hotly contested topic at the Huffington Post. <br />You are dragging the entire debate into the gutter. <br />Thanks for nothing. Bye bye.Arlonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-74513398493907541102009-10-24T11:10:35.415-07:002009-10-24T11:10:35.415-07:00"so no matter how much you prove that piracy ...<i>"so no matter how much you prove that piracy is hurting studios"</i><br /><br /><br />And you proved this WHERE Kevin?<br /><br />Oh. The studios <i>told</i> you that and you invest wholly in anything they say because you are beholden to them.<br /><br />Right. Got it.Arlonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-71898763806532660032009-10-22T10:00:29.484-07:002009-10-22T10:00:29.484-07:00Actually, no one in the quotes from the original p...Actually, no one in the quotes from the original post or in the commentary against piracy ever claimed that piracy was "the primary reason for the decline in DVD sales." <br /><br />The claim was that piracy is hurting the studio's bottom line, and that that in turn is hurting the vast workforce of rank and file animation professionals, in wages and in health and pension benefits.<br /><br />It was a broader, more subtle claim. The attack on this fact has been two-fold (and mutually contradictory):<br /><br /><i>1) Piracy <b>is real</b> but it's okay, because big companies are terrible and deserve to be damaged; their prices are too high; the pirates can't afford legitimate content; people only pirate because the quality of current movies is low; it's part of a new business model, and if you can't adapt you deserve to perish; it's actually an opportunity for individual artists to prosper, so no matter how much you prove that piracy is hurting studios, I know it's really good for individual artists; please don't ask me to articulate how it's good for individual artists, because all I can say is it's like the music industry, and I won't acknowledge that the music industry is a fundamentally different industry than animation, and . . .<br /><br />2) Piracy probably <b>isn't significant</b>; you haven't proven it to my satisfaction, so I can claim it's a non-issue and blame the studio woes on their own bad business practices; there are other reasons for the studios suffering; give me more proof, but realize that even if you give me more proof I still maintain that the business model has shifted and we can never go back to the way it was, so your proof is irrelevant.</i><br /><br />Just to clarify. <br /><br />When you're trying to discuss/debate with people who are willing to accept mutually contradictory defenses, and when one of those defenses inherently invalidates absolutely anything you can possibly say, there's not much point in trying.Kevin Kochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03106628232118096961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-60657807855184987162009-10-22T07:13:50.845-07:002009-10-22T07:13:50.845-07:00Oh I forgot to add:
I feel studios are justified...Oh I forgot to add: <br /><br />I feel studios are justified in enforcing and protecting their copyright in the meantime, though the long-term goal should be finding and developing new media outlets.gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-34329761380861160282009-10-22T07:10:37.482-07:002009-10-22T07:10:37.482-07:00It seems like there is two discussions going on he...It seems like there is two discussions going on here:<br /><br />1) Is piracy (downloaded or ripped DVDs) the primary reason for the decline in DVD sales?<br /><br />2) Is piracy a socially accepted source of media since "big companies" arent addressing changing technology?<br /><br />Its been my position throughout this thread that while I agree big studios NEED to change their distribution model to stay competent, and also continue to generate quality content to entice the movie-buying public, it is fundamentally WRONG to steal in the meantime.<br /><br />Arlo, Mars, Im curious to hear your response to this.gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-55642017403371837012009-10-22T05:07:19.459-07:002009-10-22T05:07:19.459-07:00No, again, we get what you're saying, we just ...No, again, we get what you're saying, we just disagree with it.<br /><br />Here's a radical thought: you might just be wrong, and not smarter than everyone else here!<br /><br />*GASP*Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-14307269257302373992009-10-21T22:04:12.470-07:002009-10-21T22:04:12.470-07:00"Arlo is clearly advocating piracy in his pos...<i>"Arlo is clearly advocating piracy in his posts, and justifying it. I was responding to that, not you, Mars."</i><br /><br /><br />Wrong again.<br /><br />I never advocated piracy. The most direct and incendiary comment I made is that the big studios deaserved the profit dent that piracy is (allegedly) making in their profits.<br /><br /><br />That is not advocating piracy. If I said John Wilkes Booth deserved his demise, it doesn't mean I am a proponent of martial law.<br /><br />Mars is correct, you have a really thick skull.Arlonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-70838836887285116902009-10-21T20:17:34.230-07:002009-10-21T20:17:34.230-07:00In China, they're forced to make copies becaus...<i>In China, they're forced to make copies because they they simply could not afford them.</i><br /><br />Actually, the Chinese have been copying DVDs to export them, because it's easier to rip off American movies than to make knock-off purses and Rolexs.<br /><br />And the price for a legitimate DVD in China is a fraction of the cost of a DVD here. But then, I'm not surprised that a blow-hard like Mars wouldn't know that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-88852447571735651922009-10-21T20:01:14.871-07:002009-10-21T20:01:14.871-07:00Arlo is clearly advocating piracy in his posts, an...Arlo is clearly advocating piracy in his posts, and justifying it. I was responding to that, not you, Mars.<br /><br />But thanks for your rambling, boring, pointless response anyway.<br /><br />Time to let this thread die? Yes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-18296770373207187712009-10-21T18:07:54.136-07:002009-10-21T18:07:54.136-07:00Your line of logic would say "well, they'...Your line of logic would say "well, they've invented guns, so pandora is out of the box. We cant stand up to criminals anymore. Might as well shut down police stations and turn them into crack houses."<br /><br /><br /><br />Sorry to be the first one to tell you that -- there's a world of difference between the invention of guns and the technology to copy dvds.<br /><br />Try getting that to your thick skull!<br /><br />The pandoras box is the knowledge, the technology, the possibilities...<br />I agree piracy is akin to theft but, I never said we cannot stop it.<br /><br />That's what you're getting at , right? Piracy = Theft<br />btw, my 6 yr old niece knows that too..<br /><br />We're also talking about sales of dvds/cds are DOWN and they're blaming piracy.<br />I'm simply curious if this is the absolute truth which I suspect is not. I'm not convinced with that at all. There are OTHER venues where people acquire entertainment-- they rent, they download movies, you know ; read the above posts...<br />Regardless of the issue of piracy There's a lot of evidence where the general public obtain their sources and not solely on pirate stands. It's just diversified. Many of my friends don't buy dvds anymore. No, they're stealing either..when I ask them.. there's not much good stuff that interest them , not a necessity, and other reasons..<br /><br />It's unfortunate that the companies that make dvds weren't getting the returns that they used to but, that's the modernism. The playing field has changed. Some people may have decided NOT to buy dvds anymore or maybe it's not a priority because the movies they want to watch are available on tivo, cable, netflix, amazon, itunes, other online sources...I can give you links if you want. It's common knowledge. it's out there. Ever since napster, the technology changed the landscape. and we all have to evolve.. We have to adapt.<br /><br />Some people have playlist on a free all music site and play them all day..or make a playlist on youtube. heck, there are even free TV sites .. How many do you know have crack copies of softwares ?<br /><br />In China, they're forced to make copies because they they simply could not afford them. Check the exchange rate on how much a cost of a bluray here and convert it to their currency... You say tough luck , right? Well, they say tough luck too. They make those blurays so, they can copy them. Yeah, it's bad but, that's what it is...so, is that the same as a ponzi scheme? shooting people? waging war or committing mass murders?<br /><br />Is there any way of stopping this? How about; "Yeah, there is".<br /><br />Do we know how? if we already know then, we wouldn't be discussing here-- we're just giving our thoughts on the matter.<br /><br />Anyways, we'll see who's "moronic" when the time comes...<br /><br />Furthermore, there are different laws around the globe, most of the sites where you can get those freebie movies/music are outside the US. Go ahead and flash your badge over there and arrest those crooks...there are only 60 countries.<br /><br />The US government even collaborated with China about the piracy situation..You can look it up google.. But after that, it just went on .<br /><br />I do not condone making pirated dvds but, one solution I suggest is to LOWER the prices, Not as ridiculously low as the fake ones but, low enough that it becomes affordable. Now --- the piraters won't have any profit. NO ONE 's gonna buy their stuff becuz the real deal is already available and better quality too and perhaps people will eventually buy more. Also, probably a good idea not to produce too much dvds.. The market is already diversified, why make so many copies when other just want to download? <br /><br />There could be other solutions,too... the point here is there is hope, it's not all in black and white.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12346816445768591980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-11293006712429082672009-10-21T09:18:11.113-07:002009-10-21T09:18:11.113-07:00Thank you for giving us the larger perspective, An...Thank you for giving us the larger perspective, Anonymous 7:33:00AM. And you're right, there are bigger problems. But it doesnt mean piracy is right, nor does it mean it doesnt affect us as individuals.<br /><br />It's still a valid discussion.gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-32095594421542228072009-10-21T07:33:42.265-07:002009-10-21T07:33:42.265-07:00????? This is one of the longer threads here late...????? This is one of the longer threads here lately and piracy of corporate product as a threat to our health and pension is the topic? Wall Street is what holds our health and pension hostage at the end of a gun, and that gun is the piracy and counterfeiting of your money through derivatives, naked short selling, the Depository Trust Company, Prime Brokerages, and every other financial innovation of the last 25 years that has indeed, PIRATED your accounts, TAG. DIRECTLY. I'm sorry, but I just don't get it. Bob Iger says let's throw the Chinese street vendor in jail and everyone runs around screaming bloody murder. Hello? The truth is that the people that his corporation needs to borrow money from every day to keep his stock and our pensions afloat are the ones that really do keep him up at night. You think he's really going to come out and say that, with his own wealth entirely and completely beholden to that same corrupt derivative market that sucks the life out of every single 'dollar' that is deposited into that phantom pension account with your name on it? No, but what he does say is that the people that pirate 'his' products - and I stress 'his' because his company makes it clear at every single fucking legal turn that the products are, in fact, 'his' - no, it's those people who should be thrown in jail forever and ever for all eternity, God Willing. Corrupt money is the mother of all moral issues and everyone points the fingers in all the wrong directions. And Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley and JP Morgan and every hedge fund pirate sits back and games the system even today - games your system, your pension, your health, with a Dow supposedly at 10,000. Internet pirates? Seriously? I just don't get it. I really don't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-73392302668659356572009-10-20T20:49:51.602-07:002009-10-20T20:49:51.602-07:00Some things are inevitable. Moral issues are ineve...<b>Some things are inevitable. Moral issues are ineveitable. Equality for women, Blacks and Gays were and are inevitable. </b><br /><br />It's certainly pretty to think so.Steve Huletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-50311149814796266002009-10-20T17:21:20.269-07:002009-10-20T17:21:20.269-07:00And that, my friends, is the truth.And that, my friends, is the truth.gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-51979609115872984292009-10-20T16:20:54.194-07:002009-10-20T16:20:54.194-07:00Some things are inevitable. Moral issues are ineve...Some things are inevitable. Moral issues are ineveitable. Equality for women, Blacks and Gays were and are inevitable. <br /><br />But to suggest that morals need to change and accepted because many are doing something is moronic. No matter what Arlo says he will never be able to make a case for allowing theft of anyone's property. I don't care if it's theft from the 'evil' studio owner or if it's theft from a Lighting TD. <br /><br />He shouts that we should all accept the immorality and change. Even assuming that he was right (for a minute) he doesn't have any ideas about what that change should be - zilch, nada, NOTHING! In all the time he's spent writing on this blog accusing others of being stupiud and being rude to the owners of the blog he has nothing to offer accept "you better change". And what's even worse is he doesn't blame the crimnal at all for the problem. Instead he's outraged when it might be suggested that the Studios might be seen as a victim. Guess what? Even the Studios, who may lie and cheat on a daily basis, can be victims too. Of course, Arlo probably feels a prostitute who is raped had it coming.<br />One thing has nothing to do with the other and in this case if the studios are cheated, we are cheated. When their profits diminish they don't take a smaller check they make our budgets tigfhter and our salaries smaller. THAT is the real reality of what will happen.<br /><br />Arlo is clearly trying to justify his own piracy.<br />Please let us know who you really are so we can send the FBI over to your little studio apartment (or are you living in your parent's garage?)<br />THAT is how you fight piracy. You make the demand go away by making it too risky to buy or download pirated art. Of course, that won't make it disappear entirely (I'm sure that's Arlo's next argument), but the casual theif might think twice before taking a chance in prison for being able to watch AstroBoy for free.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-77750367795290225922009-10-20T13:58:22.325-07:002009-10-20T13:58:22.325-07:00Yes, piracy is against the law but, you need to ar...<b>Yes, piracy is against the law but, you need to arrest half of the world's population to make that law more effective.</b><br /><br />I guess for me, Im asking for personal responsibility from consumers. Is that too much to ask? <br /><br />And if so, start making the penalty for stealing media more harsh.<br /><br />Your line of logic would say "well, they've invented guns, so pandora is out of the box. We cant stand up to criminals anymore. Might as well shut down police stations and turn them into crack houses."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-64774186055752604562009-10-20T13:27:55.612-07:002009-10-20T13:27:55.612-07:00In the early 80's - the animator's desk w...In the early 80's - the animator's desk was full of cassette tapes (some had vinyls, 8 tracks?)<br />by the 90's - the advent of digital tech so naturally, cds/minidisc/mp3 yeah, Napster, P2P, bit torrent..<br />21st century --- Ipods, Iphones, psps, & your latest gizmo at the source...<br /><br />Where are these blurays manufactured? mostly in China right.<br />If they can be duplicated , they can be "pirated" 7 bucks a piece, 2 bucks for a dvd..<br />But, just how many NYC stands are there? where are these pirated stalls?<br />I know 2 in Toronto - been raided so many times-- kept coming back and still exist!<br />then, there are the Online movies...so many!!! you don't even need a pirated copy!<br />Anyone heard of the decrypter? able to make a perfect copy, special features included.<br />It defeats the security code! Pirated ones usually consists only the movie.<br /><br />Not to mention the percentage of people who access the music/movies in public libraries for FREE! or reduced prices at local bargain shops, flea markets, garage sales...<br /><br />They've shut down p2p sites, more and more followed-- There's no escaping this--- Someone, somewhere is making a COPY of almost anything..<br /><br />Arlo has a point whether you like it or not. the Pandora box stays open!<br />Yes, piracy is against the law but, you need to arrest half of the world's population to make that law more effective.<br /><br />Keep creating is just one of the solutions.. there'd be more answers later.<br />Shane Acker is just an example, not for everyone I'm sure.<br /><br /> the question is -- Why would anyone rush out to buy a $30 bluray disc, $300 bluray player in a RECESSION?<br /><br />However, by reducing the prices -- it'd be a different story. Not only, the pirated copies will go away becuz theirs is sub par anyway! MORE people in droves will have easy access to the greatness (or crappiness) of the material in those bluray/cd/dvds.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12346816445768591980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-47247545917616418672009-10-20T12:44:49.050-07:002009-10-20T12:44:49.050-07:00I think that you are beholden to studios for every...<i>I think that you are beholden to studios for everything creative and productive in your life - and thats a sad existence isn't it?</i><br /><br />Arlo, while I dig some of what you're saying, Kevin isn't suggesting we're dependent on the studios for "Everything creative & productive" in our lives. We paint, draw, make music and our own animated films on our own time. We're just beholden to studios to earn a paycheck, just like anyone else.<br /><br /><i>Good luck with your personal campaign to reduce piracy and portray the big studios as victims.</i><br /><br />Again, Kevin & Steve aren't portraying the studios as victims, any more than an auto worker's union talking about worker layoffs at GM plants is portraying the auto companies as victims. The point of the original post is how us little guys are finding jobs in short supply since the bigwigs earning their fat bonuses are crying victim.<br /><br />... and I think we all know one can never trust Hollywood accounting. (Forrest Gump and the Lord of the RIngs trilogy did'nt make any money to pay the creatives who made 'em? Yeah <i>RIGHT.</i>)<br /><br />Peace, man.Dude, c'mon.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-2201773198301140092009-10-20T12:33:37.365-07:002009-10-20T12:33:37.365-07:00Rufus- Blur's business model is a pretty stan...Rufus- Blur's business model is a pretty standard one for most boutique animation studios, and has been for some time. Commercials are often the bread & butter for small studios, helping to keep them afloat until a series/film deal can happen.<br /><br />Most shorts seem to wind up being a calling card/portfolio piece/leverage getter until an artist can get a job- or if they win the animation lottery like a lucky few -a series/film deal with, yes, <i>a major studio.</i> (And winning Emmys and producing hit shows for studios won't guarantee you your own series or a mega-paycheck; You are still at the mercy of the studios who greenlight/fund/market/air/release the product. Maybe George Lucas is the only guy who managed to subvert the system by getting crazy rich with an endlessly milkable ca$h cow.)<br /><br />It should be noted that Nina Paley has made her self-made film "Sita Sings the Blues" available for FREE under a creative commons license (rendering the whole piracy issue moot), though more for political reasons than profit-driven ones. While she almost went broke making it over the course of 3-5 years, she has received numerous awards (for film festivals she entered at great personal financial cost) and has achieved some measure of fame. Not rich yet, though."Yup."noreply@blogger.com