tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post8448629345360659369..comments2024-03-26T22:42:06.412-07:00Comments on TAG Blog: Where We AreSteve Huletthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-27542714115350704872012-12-28T20:06:46.172-08:002012-12-28T20:06:46.172-08:00Steve, if public pensions need to be "downsiz...Steve, if public pensions need to be "downsized and reformed", you have a curious way of expressing that opinion when you support that sentiment by supporting an initiative(prop 30) that would boost their growth. More public employees will be hired because of Prop 30 passing than would if it wasn't.<br /><br />It would be a shame if you blocked my posts on the issue. Especially in light of the fact that I correctly predicted the outcome of unpaid liabilities in cities. This news broke last week <br /><br /><br /><a href="http://www.pe.com/local-news/politics/imran-ghori-headlines/20121221-san-bernardino-judge-denies-calpers-request-to-force-city-payment.ece" rel="nofollow">Judge denies CalPERS request to force city payment</a> <br /><br />So Alice Marie doesn't have to wait and see. That which cannot continue, won't.<br /><br />Happy New Year folks!<br /><br />Oswald Coxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13790750339539864121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-58571771216959590122012-12-24T18:07:47.238-08:002012-12-24T18:07:47.238-08:00But there are numerous post by you, our union rep ...<b>But there are numerous post by you, our union rep where you try to paint the corrupt public unions as the victim </b><br /><br />Like where have I said that public unions are "victims?"<br /><br />What I've said is that A) I support them (even as I sometimes disagree with them), and B) Public pensions need to be downsized and reformed.<br /><br />Kindly source where I have said that public unions are victims.<br /><br />Much thanks.Steve Huletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-84848387960621253822012-12-24T18:02:51.210-08:002012-12-24T18:02:51.210-08:00Oswald, old top, we will just never cross that big...Oswald, old top, we will just never cross that big, gaping divide.<br /><br />You have a basic emnity for Public Unions and some private unions. I don't. that gets me labeled "immoral" by you, lectured by you, on my stances. I make it clear that I opposed California's anti-union initiative because it would take down PRIVATE unions along with the horrid public ones.<br /><br />You don't care. (And you clearly don't agree.) I'm still immoral for opposing it. You applaud "right to work" in Michigan, and I don't. Notice how I don't call you "immoral" for supporting it.<br /><br />Oh. And by the way. This ain't a union blog. Read the notice in the upper right-hand corner. What's written here under my by-line is MY opinion, not the Animation Guild's. I want to write about union stuff, I will. I want to put up Christmas cards, I will. I want to write about general corruption, I will. Kevin Koch and I started this site long ago and the guild has never contributed a penny to it.<br /><br />And we continue to disagree. You're agnostic about gun control. Fine. You don't want to talk about general corruption and the financial crisis. Ducky. I've written about the latter numerous times.<br /><br />And I continue to refrain from calling you immoral.Steve Huletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-58540303949189001542012-12-23T16:26:53.350-08:002012-12-23T16:26:53.350-08:00Thats because, in case you haven't noticed Ste...Thats because, in case you haven't noticed Steve - this is A UNION BLOG.<br /><br />Hence the adherence to union issues. If it was a banking blog, then those issues would be front and center. But in here, I would hope, we have union members and union reps who work on tending their own garden. And never was there a post on here DEFENDING corrupt banks.<br /><br />But there are numerous post by you, our union rep where you try to paint the corrupt public unions as the victim. This begged for a response.<br /><br />Now that I'm giving a response, complete with facts and sources, you are trying to obfuscate the issue by asking why corrupt banks aren't being mentioned.<br />Its desperate and not very becoming of you. <br /><br />I mean, really... are you going to write the NYTimes for the article I linked and ask them <br />"What about corrupt banks??!"<br /><br />Please...Oswald Coxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13790750339539864121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-50276268997211756252012-12-23T14:46:46.499-08:002012-12-23T14:46:46.499-08:00What's sad is the economic collapse in 2008 di...What's sad is the economic collapse in 2008 didn't need to happen, and it all comes back to greed.<br /><br />Unregulated capitalism at its best. <br /><br />Unfortunately I don't think you can jail a corporation.Alice Mariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05714436654727809865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-32117953936097710922012-12-22T16:19:46.937-08:002012-12-22T16:19:46.937-08:00Oswald only harps on Public Unions and their greed...Oswald only harps on Public Unions and their greed.<br /><br />Never a word about banks such as UBS (a lovely Swiss bank) which just paid a fine of $1.5 billion for manipulating world interest rates (Libor), nor will he harp on the massive fraud that large American banks have committed over the last four years, helping homeowners to become renters.<br /><br />Will anybody go to jail over this massive corruption? Nope. Will anybody be convicted? Probably not. Republicans and Democrats are teaming up to make sure the wrist taps are light.<br /><br />In Oswald World, it's all about Public Unions. Steve Huletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-53201430277865485702012-12-21T01:47:53.069-08:002012-12-21T01:47:53.069-08:00We'll just have to wait and see.We'll just have to wait and see.Alice Mariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05714436654727809865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-25263599395149601362012-12-21T01:18:40.089-08:002012-12-21T01:18:40.089-08:00"Regarding pensions: right now even when a ci...<br /><i>"Regarding pensions: right now even when a city is going bankrupt, the courts are ruling the city still has to pay those liabilities."</i><br /><br />Yeah, thats according to STATE law. Watch what happens when the issue gets put in front of a federal bankruptcy judge.<br /><br /><b><br />Bankruptcy in America is a collective process, where creditors of a distressed company or municipality come together under court oversight and negotiate a plan to share the losses equitably, for the sake of the greater good. Some creditors may stand more toward the front of the line and others at the back, but there isn’t generally one big creditor that gets paid in full without having to get in line at all.<br /><br />Yet that’s what Calpers appears to be doing.</b><br /><br /><br /><br />Read more<br /><br /><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/business/untouchable-pensions-in-california-may-be-put-to-the-test.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0" rel="nofollow">NYTimes: Untouchable Pensions May Be Tested in California</a><br /><br /><br />(and yes, I meant $600 billion in the above post...)Oswald Coxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13790750339539864121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-63297497525522186732012-12-20T12:59:28.662-08:002012-12-20T12:59:28.662-08:00No, its not. Because the unfunded liabilities is a...<b>No, its not. Because the unfunded liabilities is a priority that outweighs schools. Especially to a politician who has to answer to the press corps after crimes are committed and police are laid off.</b><br /><br />Prop 30 is not providing additional funds to schools because the state government had already cut the budget. The funds won't even equal the cuts - the net effect will be that the cut is much less deep than originally planned.<br /><br />So what you're referring to? Has already happened. <br /><br /><b>EVERYTHING is getting trimmed because of $6 billion in debt. Do you have any idea how much money that is???</b><br /><br />No. I can't count. (Don't you mean 600 billion?)<br /><br /><b>So don't get too excited for a solvent education system.</b><br /><br />I never claimed our education system was solvent. I think there is incredible waste, and bloating at the administration level. <br /><br />Regarding pensions: right now even when a city is going bankrupt, the courts are ruling the city still has to pay those liabilities. These are past promises - so I don't imagine breaking the public union/reform is going to change that - it'll only change the compensation for new employees. <br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br />Alice Mariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05714436654727809865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-64613877543854367822012-12-20T01:19:35.765-08:002012-12-20T01:19:35.765-08:00"Betting your bottom dollar" that it wil...<br /><i>"Betting your bottom dollar" that it will be diverted to unfunded liabilities/pensions is a guess,</i><br /><br />No, its not. Because the unfunded liabilities is a <b>priority</b> that outweighs schools. Especially to a politician who has to answer to the press corps after crimes are committed and police are laid off.<br /><br />You do realize that there are giant layoffs looming for LA cops right? Have you been reading the news in this city? <br /><br />Its a matter of risk management. No politician is going to get bounced from office over school funding being diverted to what he decided were more necessary resources. But their head will be on the chopping block if cuts to the police force affect the safety of city residents and the funds that could have been available were diverted to the CSU system.<br /><br />EVERYTHING is getting trimmed because of $6 billion in debt. Do you have any idea how much money that is???<br /><br />Education is not anywhere in the wheelhouse of vital services for a city. First responders, firefighters, untilities, etc.Those come first and those are underfunded.<br /><br />So don't get too excited for a solvent education system.Oswald Coxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13790750339539864121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-91541486657507309912012-12-19T17:48:43.879-08:002012-12-19T17:48:43.879-08:00Oswald:
"Betting your bottom dollar" ...Oswald: <br /><br /><br />"Betting your bottom dollar" that it will be diverted to unfunded liabilities/pensions is a guess, so in that respect, how is that any different from the article I posted?<br /><br />As for the actual ramifications of prop 30 - it is having very real, current effects on the education system. Without it, many schools would have had major changes triggered because of cuts - even with prop 30 there will be overall funding cuts, but it won't be nearly as bad.<br /><br />For example, at the CSU level a planned raise in fees was rescinded and 6000 more students than expected are going to be able to enroll on one campus alone.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Alice Mariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05714436654727809865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-66094791688043913782012-12-19T08:52:33.000-08:002012-12-19T08:52:33.000-08:00Oswald, old top. We can all speculate where the n...Oswald, old top. We can all speculate where the new tax revenue will be spent. But that's all it is: speculation.<br /><br />California is indeed a high-tax state. (No. 4.) 11.2% is what residents pay as a percent of income.<br /><br />Our neighbor Nevada is a low-tax state. Its residents pay 8.2% taxes in total income.<br /><br />Three percent difference.<br /><br />One other big difference, because of Las Vegas and the merriments found there, the percent of total taxes paid by non-residents is 44%, sixth highest in the country.<br /><br />By contrast, California's percent of taxes paid by non-residents is the lowest in the country: 15.5%.<br /><br />So. You want lower taxes, drive across the state line and let the tourists in Nevada pay a big chunk of the freight.<br /><br />http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2012/10/28/state-taxes-states-highest-lowest/1654071/Steve Huletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-10246347348549779882012-12-18T21:10:41.082-08:002012-12-18T21:10:41.082-08:00AliceMarie, your link is not current (Nov.1st?!?) ...AliceMarie, your link is not current (Nov.1st?!?) and the verdict is not out on how that money will be spent.<br /><br />After all, Steve and I (two old geezers) can both attest to the promises made on behalf of the California Lottery initiative that passed in 1988. Oh it was a real boon lemme tell ya.<br /><br /><i>"a major selling point was that 28 cents of every dollar earned on the lottery, the largest in the nation, would go to public schools and 6 cents to colleges and universities. Fifty cents would go into the pockets of winners, with the remaining 16 cents going toward administrative costs. Lottery sales were spurred by the slogan ''Schools Win Too!<br /><br />But educators say the figures tell only part of the story. Many educators contend that lottery dollars have begun to supplant regular state aid to education. They say that is contrary to the intent of the lottery law.''</i><br /><br /><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/04/us/california-educators-assert-lottery-has-failed-to-pay-off-for-the-schools.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/04/us/california-educators-assert-lottery-has-failed-to-pay-off-for-the-schools.html</a><br /><br /><br />I'm assuming you weren't here when we all danced to that tune. Get ready to be let down. If money was diverted in the late 80s....<br /><br />You can bet your bottom dollar that it will be diverted with $600 billion in unfunded liabilities.Oswald Coxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13790750339539864121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-77084336199979571372012-12-18T20:37:02.643-08:002012-12-18T20:37:02.643-08:00Celshader, what are you smoking?
"California...Celshader, what are you smoking?<br /><br /><b>"California has one of the highest corporate income tax rates and ranked 5th among the states in terms of per capita corporation tax revenues."</b><br /><br />http://www.budgetchallenge.org/pages/ca_vs_other_states<br /><br /><br />LADIES & GENTLEMEN OF THE ANIMATION GUILD,<br />THE DEBT IN THIS STATE IS <a href="http://www.statebudgetsolutions.org/publications/detail/state-budget-solutions-third-annual-state-debt-report-shows-total-state-debt-over-4-trillion" rel="nofollow">$600 BILLION.</a><br /><br />WAKE UP.<br />You think corporations can "pay their fair share" and then everything will be alright? They already pay their fair share. <br /><br />On top of that, you could <i>seize all of the land owned by corporations in this state and sell it tomorrow </i>and you wouldn't be able to put a dent in that debt. Guess who is going to pay for it fellow middle class, tax paying, Los Angeles residents? <br /><br />You. You and the rest of the people that live in this state.<br /><br />You are on the hook for this debt - even though you didn't cause it. The public union and the politicians they extorted into giving into these generous payouts are going to skate away unfettered and all of the peons - you and me - will have less services and much much higher taxes.<br /><br /><br />You think they are going to just repeal taxes on corporations?!? Bend over. Because the real money is in residential real estate. If you own a house and you aren't worried, you're dumb.<br /><br />$600 billion... thats federal level debt.<br /><br /><br />(Way to shoot the messenger Kousac. Sorry you can't handle the facts)Oswald Coxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13790750339539864121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-27429512589994164202012-12-18T19:42:34.637-08:002012-12-18T19:42:34.637-08:00"Some day you must try reading what I actuall..."Some day you must try reading what I actually write instead of what you hear in your head."<br /><br />You can't expect far fringe right wingnuts to actually READ or THINK for themselves! Good lord, the guy thinks reagun was worth more than his seat in hell.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07768086712318349494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-81881717353260340682012-12-18T18:25:54.966-08:002012-12-18T18:25:54.966-08:00"Prop 30 was about forking more money out for..."Prop 30 was about forking more money out for pensions that overestimated (laughingly so) the returns on their investment."<br /><br />http://www.scpr.org/blogs/education/2012/11/01/10839/prop-30-fact-check-well-never-know-where-money-act/<br />Alice Mariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05714436654727809865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-49638696920280496162012-12-18T18:21:19.743-08:002012-12-18T18:21:19.743-08:00...you are going to ask taxpayers (the middle clas...<b><i>...you are going to ask taxpayers (the middle class) to fork out more money...</i></b><br /><br />Just the middle class? Why shouldn't the corporations who've gotten a free ride for decades off of Prop 13 support the state in which they prospered?<br /><br />I support closing the <a href="http://closetheloophole.com/" rel="nofollow">corporate tax loophole</a> in Prop 13. Apple, Google and Disney can more than afford it.Celshaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06835531857425033524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-76566029920252707632012-12-18T17:39:15.926-08:002012-12-18T17:39:15.926-08:00"I want to reform them."
Steve, you hav..."I want to reform them."<br /><br />Steve, you haven't made a single post on this blog about that. Prop 30, which you supported, was an effort to maintain the status quo.<br /><br />Prop 30 was about forking more money out for pensions that overestimated (laughingly so) the returns on their investment.<br /><br />And they're going to do it again and again and again - and every time you are going to ask taxpayers (the middle class) to fork out more money because if you don't, you're anti union.<br /><br />Whens the tipping point? when does the squeeze of taxes - the highest taxes in the nation - eclipse towing the union line? When people lose their houses? Or when you lose your house? Whats it gonna take?<br /><br />We both know what real reform would be. Real pension reform in California requires repeal of SB400.<br /><br />If you don't support that, then you don't support reform. You're just giving lip service to your bosses while dues paying members keep feeling the squeeze for the OTHER unions that cooked the books.<br />Oswald Coxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13790750339539864121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-73189238681547879142012-12-18T15:58:26.626-08:002012-12-18T15:58:26.626-08:00Face facts Steve:
Calpers is the largest pension ...<b>Face facts Steve:<br /> Calpers is the largest pension fund in the US, and they returned a measly 1 percent on its investments last year. This marks the third time in five years that the pension fund has failed to reach the benchmark 7.5 percent it needs to fulfill pension obligations. </b><br /><br />Some day you must try reading what I actually write instead of what you hear in your head.<br /><br />Corporations are corrupt. The government is corrupt. Unions are corrupt. And the California Pension system is unsustainable in its present form.<br /><br />We agree on all these things, I think. The difference is, you want to get rid of the corrupt pieces you don't like, and I want to reform them.<br /><br /><br />Steve Huletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-89568751026319980322012-12-18T15:27:37.267-08:002012-12-18T15:27:37.267-08:00And here's my prediction:
Prop 13 is next. So...And here's my prediction:<br /><br />Prop 13 is next. So if you own a home in California, get prepared to shell out much more money for taxes. Because paying the pensions that public employee unions have been spiking to astronomical figures is going to be prioritized over your being able to afford a home in this state.<br /><br />Oswald Coxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13790750339539864121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-2787291111371137322012-12-18T15:17:40.855-08:002012-12-18T15:17:40.855-08:00Don't think it will work, long term. Our diffe...<br />Don't think it will work, long term. Our difference is, you want to gut unions, I want to negotiate with them.<br /><br />I'm calling corruption corruption. You're excusing it because it has been done by unions.<br /><br />You go on and on about greedy corporations and the robber barons of the corporate state this country. For the most part, I'm on board. But its your naked hypocrisy that is so ridiculous.<br /><br />Face facts Steve:<br /> Calpers is the largest pension fund in the US, and they returned a measly 1 percent on its investments last year. This marks the third time in five years that the pension fund has failed to reach the benchmark 7.5 percent it needs to fulfill pension obligations. <br /><br />This percentage rate is used to calculate how much money the fund will need to cover the benefits and how much employers have to contribute. When they don't meet their returns, California drowns in red ink and taxes go up for everyone. See: the middle class.<br /><br />The fund’s actuary recommended a lower target, but the fund rejected it.<br /><br />These fund managers are LYING and should be in jail. And they would be if they were a corporation, They are cooking the books. And you excuse them over and over and over again because you are an idealogue. I'm a pragmatist.<br /><br />^All of my facts are real.<br /><br />Attacking me as this or that has no bearing on the argument that you are losing. Its called "shooting the messenger". The messenger with unsettling realities to the fantasy you keep building up in here. <br /><br />Oswald Coxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13790750339539864121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-82345014997389439332012-12-18T11:49:51.475-08:002012-12-18T11:49:51.475-08:00Soon you're going to have to leave the partisa...<b>Soon you're going to have to leave the partisan claptrap behind because you live in California my friend. </b><br /><br />"Partisan" is just another word for "political," Oswald. And it's all political, as you will discover as you mature.Steve Huletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-82258228884069885182012-12-18T11:48:03.112-08:002012-12-18T11:48:03.112-08:00And BOTH parties are going to squeeze the public u...<b>And BOTH parties are going to squeeze the public unions here. Democrats and Republicans. Because we can't conjure up the billions of unfunded liability. </b><br /><br />Never said anything different Mr. Cox. <br /><br />Even now, CalPers is trying to force bankrupt California cities to cough up more money into the Pension fund by suing.<br /><br />Don't think it will work, long term. Our difference is, you want to gut unions, I want to negotiate with them.<br /><br />But, as ever, it's about leverage. We'll see how events shake out.Steve Huletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537689111433326847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-55799538019513458612012-12-18T10:58:37.723-08:002012-12-18T10:58:37.723-08:00Speaking from the inside, it's been a struggle...<b><i>Speaking from the inside, it's been a struggle sustaining [the 839 quality of life]. But if Oswald works diligently, he can help make it all go away.</i></b><br /><br />No kidding. I know you've covered this ground many times before, Steve, but employee compensation really is about leverage and not fairness. Decent wages and benefits have nothing to do with what is good and right in this world. It's whatever the employees have the strength to demand from their employer.Celshaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06835531857425033524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22906998.post-85948363127468108652012-12-18T10:09:35.089-08:002012-12-18T10:09:35.089-08:00Soon you're going to have to leave the partisa...Soon you're going to have to leave the partisan claptrap behind because you live in California my friend.<br /><br />And BOTH parties are going to squeeze the public unions here. Democrats and Republicans. Because we can't conjure up the billions of unfunded liability. <br /><br />I'm just doing my part bracing you for the inevitable my friend. Your undying and unquestioning support of public unions will have to change in the next 5 - 10 years.<br /><br />Truuuuuust me Steve. You can't tow this line on them. <br /><br />http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-14/californian-s-609-000-check-shows-true-retirement-cost.htmlOswald Coxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13790750339539864121noreply@blogger.com