Just a few minutes after I posted my reply on this blog to a particularly silly anti-union rant from someone claiming that no one from the union ever responds to them, I saw this post on the Crooks and Liars blog.
Public service employees should give up their pensions because of the resentment from private sector workers who don't have pensions. Truly, the mind boggles.
(Read the linked post, it makes the argument against this better than I could.)
The thoughts and observations of the leaders of The Animation Guild (TAG), Local 839 IATSE. Jason MacLeod is the Business Representative, KC Johnson is the President. Mike Sauer is Assistant to the Business Representative.
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23 comments:
#1. Those pensions were intended for firefighters and policemen who put their lives on the line. They were NEVER intended for the bottom of the barrel dipwads working at the DMV.
In CA, the average state employee who retired last fiscal year received a benefits package worth more than $1.4 million. This bonanza is in stark contrast to the $60,000 the Employee Benefits Research Institute says the average American has available for his or her own retirement. Is it fair to have taxpayers pay for retirement benefits 20 times more valuable than they receive themselves?
#2. And most importantly - THE MONEY ISN'T THERE. These pensions in CA and NJ and other states were granted by politicians who KNEW that they couldn't deliver on that promise. The taxpayers didn't agree to those pensions, a politician mortgaged the futurue and walked away scott free.
#3. The pensions funds lost money when Lehman Brothers closed and the market crashed. Just like everybody else. TOUGH LUCK.
Those pensions were intended for firefighters and policemen who put their lives on the line...
Darn straight. We taxpayers reward brave firefighters and policemen by taking away their right to collectively bargain in Ohio.
These pensions in CA and NJ and other states were granted by politicians who KNEW that they couldn't deliver on that promise.
Glad to hear we can continue to attract top talent for public services in the future by breaking promises to our current public workforce.
I suppose if you purchased a car... but then lost your job you'd tell the bank 'tough luck, you're not getting what I agreed to pay you, there just isn't any money.'
Whether or not you agree with the pensions, that is what was agreed upon, and that is what is owed. Adjust the pensions for new hires, sure. But deciding after the fact that you're not happy with the deal? You're nothing more than a crook. Go home to the O'Reilly forums and troll there.
Hi I was the person who posted the questions in the previous blog.
As you can see my demo reel is awesome and having a union would hinder my success:
http://imhotep397.cgsociety.org/gallery/
no. it wasn't agreed upon becuse the party paying for it, wasn't part of the agreement.
See? See where the problem is? Can you grasp that simple concept.
Its a lot like - no, exactly like - if you gave your money to an investment firm and they promised returns that they knew they could never make and when the feds got a hold of his ponzi scheme you were left holding nithing. Its exactly like Bernie Madoff, which is why people are so pissed off.
Dozens of municipalities in CA are INSOLVENT. Yes, just like Madoff securities.
Calpers used their leverage to get politicians to pass a whole range of improved packages to government workers in 1999 and at that time they stated that it would cost the taxpayers $650 million in 2010.
Last year it cost $3.1 BILLION.
And next year it will cost $3.5 BILLION
And if you live in California, and you own a house support this kind of crap in some misplaced sentiment of "union solidarity", then be sure to take the hard life lesson when Jerry Brown bones you with a gargantuan property tax increase and the elderly couple across the street from you have to move out of their home and the same kind of yuppie scum you are decrying in here move in.
The money's not there. And its a special kind of audacity for unions to think everyone should suffer during this financial crisis except for them.
TOUGH LUCK.
"And dude, tomorrow's already the tenth..."
"Right on, man"
To Anonymous 6:02:
Like it or not, agree with it or not, the people who negotiated those pensions were the people elected to office under our watch.
Just because you don't like it that someone else was smart enough to join a union and get a decent pension and you weren't doesn't give you the right to unilaterally rip up the contract that gave that other person his retirement.
Scott Walker is welcome to try, but we'll see what the courts say (not to mention the voters in the recall election.)
And remember, Wisconsin is not broke.
"And remember, Wisconsin is not broke."
I don't know if that is the case or not, but California is more than broke. It's just a matter of time before it all hits the fan. The public union benefits arranged by bought-off corrupt politicians are bound to be changed. No money available.
Wisconsin is broke.
Rachel Maddow is not telling you the truth bub. She read one report which stated the current budget balance - a report that did not disclose debts pending. Like $315 million in unpaid Medicaid bills and $59 million owed to the state of Minnesota. There's also $200 million missing from a "Family Compensation Fund that former democratic governor Jim Doyle illegally raided to balance the budget.
All in all they are over half a billion in debt. Check the facts next time. Feel free to check mine.
And the voters did have their say on Scott Walker - they put him in office in November.
"Just because you don't like it that someone else was smart enough to join a union and get a decent pension and you weren't doesn't give you the right to unilaterally rip up the contract that gave that other person his retirement."
IT DOES WHEN THEY PRESENTED FAKE FIGURES ON ITS COST.
Thats called fraud.
Watch what happens in California. We've got $27 BILLION in debt and the taxpayers aren't going to pay for that crap. Just watch what happens.
Watch what happens in California. We've got $27 BILLION in debt and the taxpayers aren't going to pay for that crap.
Yeah...crap like police, firefighters, grade schools, universities, libraries, parks, roads, garbage removal...
"Check the facts next time. Feel free to check mine."
I did. You're lying. rush limbo and glen beck shouldn't be your only source of "news."
>>Yeah...crap like police, firefighters, grade schools, universities, libraries, parks, roads, garbage removal...
Why do people always start with police and fire? WTF? It's the 'support our troops' bullshit. Screw that. You don't magically occupy some higher moral ground because you're an adrenaline junkie looking to jump out of planes and through front doors. F**k you. You know what you are signing up for.
Civil service is a privilege. And if I have to watch one more of my public servant neighbors retire early with jet skis and motor homes, and then take a second career because they can't stand sitting at home with their fat wives, I'm going to f***ing explode.
Screw public service unions, they are absolutely as corrupt and immoral as Goldman Sachs. Two rights don't make a wrong. These theatrical sideshows between the evil twins of labor and corporations make me vomit.
To get the public involved, make civil service mandatory. If it were a legal duty, people might actually realize from being up close that the problem is US, not some 'out-of-control' entity to be perpetually suspicious of. We spend too much money on useless crap, don't save anything, create enormous waste, and want others to pick up the shovels and clean it all up. We won't even fight our own wars and have to employ private professional armies of adrenaline a-holes to bomb countries for our RV vacations.
Oh, but we DO have the useless American platitudes of 'individualism' and 'freedom' and 'democracy' to help us pretend that everything is going to be okay!
Should we be surprised at labor or corporate malfeasance? Really?
You don't magically occupy some higher moral ground because you're an adrenaline junkie looking to jump out of planes and through front doors. F**k you. You know what you are signing up for.
Uh...
What?
Did Charlie Sheen write this?
Some thoughts on the Crooks & Liars post...
1) The maximum contribution individuals can make to an IRA is $5000, not $2000. The maximum that a married couple can make to their IRAs is $10000, not $4000. C&L posted the older limits by mistake.
2) Other than that, I have no real quibble with the C&L post. I work in the private industry of visual effects, and I think most of the artists here in Los Angeles would be better off if they unionized.
Too many VFX artists here in Los Angeles are broke, sick or dead because they don't have enough health insurance. Too many older VFX artists are going to retire with nothing but Social Security to pay their rent.
We can't be the only private industry that looks so poorly after its workers. I expect to see more unions in the future, not fewer.
its a special kind of audacity for unions to think everyone should suffer during this financial crisis except for them.
Substitute "too big to fail banks" for "unions," and I'm with you.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/03/14/110396/amid-furor-over-state-pensions.html
WASHINGTON — Some members of Congress haven't been shy about criticizing underfunded state and local pension plans, even though they themselves enjoy much heftier retirement packages than most private-sector employees and state workers do.
Anon 8:25 wrote:
"I did. You're lying. rush limbo and glen beck shouldn't be your only source of 'news.' "
Here are the links to the budget discrepancies that put Wisconsin in the red:
$200 million taken from the medical malpractice fund by the previous democratic governor Jim Doyle which must now be paid back:
http://tinyurl.com/3axx5yv
Massive debt from state medicaid shortfalls(via politifact for you to choke on):
http://tinyurl.com/65g5xwc
Minnesota asks for the money Wisconsin owes them:
http://tinyurl.com/4tz5th6
^ See, its quite easy to roundly refute the garbage that spills out of Rachel Maddow's mouth on a nightly basis. Tell me again how I'm lying.
Or just disappear like we all expected you to.
:)
*** The money's not there. And its a special kind of audacity for unions to think everyone should suffer during this financial crisis except for them.
I love this sort of comment. "Ohhh, I'm suffering, you should be suffering too." The same jackasses that use this logic are the ones who when the situations are reversed will go on and on about 'how smart they were', and how they planed ahead.
Please.
its a special kind of audacity for unions to think everyone should suffer during this financial crisis except for them.
Unbelievable. Unions exist for the sole purpose of improving the lives of their members, so they don't have to suffer. Instead of trying to destroy unions, you should be trying to unionize your workplace so you and your co-workers can enjoy the kind of benefits unions bring.
You are admitting the better quality of life union members have. You're apparently jealous that you don't have that as well. Or you're a Republican with an inherent disgust toward employees.
>>Unbelievable. Unions exist for the sole purpose of improving the lives of their members, so they don't have to suffer. Instead of trying to destroy unions, you should be trying to unionize your workplace so you and your co-workers can enjoy the kind of benefits unions bring.<<
Don't confuse the problems with public service unions and the one we belong in.
Apples and oranges. Our union isn't destroying the country and milking everyone dry.
" Unions exist for the sole purpose of improving the lives of their members,..."
Private ones like this one do. Collective bargaining in government has gone wildly awry, this is a fact. The only argument I really hear from union activists in the public sphere is that if they don't get in there and rip off the taxpayer first, the corporations will do it, and we just can't have that. It is a race to who can rip off the public first.
Why do you think no one wants to pay for government? They are all pigs at the trough, and if you support either, you are standing there with your hand out, just like banks and corporations looking for the next place to 'create jobs' and 'develop the community'. Sound familiar? We hear the same crap from public service unions. It's bullshit. All circulating money is debt and lending. The money you are taxed to pay for these jokers pensions you didn't even have in the first place. That's the most hilarious thing of all! And I despise these public unions even more simply because they actually believe they are negotiating for income and productivity that exists!
"...be sure to take the hard life lesson when Jerry Brown bones you with a gargantuan property tax increase..."
Don't know where you live, but it ain't in California. If it were, you'd know that this isn't possible as long as Prop 13 is still in effect. And since no one has the political will to tamper with it, it's not going anywhere.
Ummm.. YEAH I DO live in California and Prop 13 is the elephant in the room. Google it and you will see Jerry Brown is trying to mount an appeal to it if his efforts to sidestep it with massive tax increases don't pass.
Its not going to work. Look what happened in Miami today. They kicked out the mayor who wanted to tax the people for government workers entitlement programs.
http://tinyurl.com/68gyyue
Watch what happens in California. Government union are going to get reined in. The fraud they pulled on the people of this state won't stand.
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