Where the lighting department is in its final 6-8 weeks of work for Tangled ...
and morale is lower than a dachshund's belly, since most of the artists and technicians were given their notices in July, and layoffs now loom.
As one Disney employee mentioned: "People who've been here five, ten and twenty years are getting let go. It's not a happy time."
Indeed not. But sadly, it's a recurrent theme. Disney Feature Animation's atmosphere, in fact, is a lot like it was in 2001, when hand-drawn animation was imploding and everybody working on Home on the Range knew they had four months before they got to go stand in the unemployment line: Grim.
The problem, of course, is that story development on new features has been scanty and now there is nothing to drop into the production pipeline to keep tech directors and animators going. So, tech directors and animators get laid off. Sitting in one long-time Disneyite's office, I allowed as how the studio seemed indifferent to hanging onto talented staff. I got a thin smile.
"Incompetently indifferent."
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135 comments:
They are determinedly indifferent. From the POV of the people across the street the FA division down here is a money pit for them. It's cost them more than it's made for too long. After their purchase of Pixar they had no real reason to keep another, second studio down here unless the marketplace was begging for double the releases which it isn't, or they got a virtual BO/merch phenomenon(which Frog was supposed to have been) and unfortunately it hasn't worked out that way.
They made no long term plans to weather any missteps or "disappointments". It's already being operated on a virtual boutique basis but with a very large overhead, much larger than would be the case on a picture-by-picture basis farmed out to former employees as freelancers. It's a shame but there it is.
The constant layoffs and rehiring has worked for Sony, Rhythm and Hues, ILM, etc. so why wouldn't this work for Disney?
Worked in what sense? none of those studios is doing great or working on the best projects. DW are slowly retaining the best talent from the studios
Its not AS gloom-and-doom as you make it out to be, Steve.
There are exciting shows in the pipeline, but you're right, they arent ready for production yet. So the timing stinks. But for those of us here who are slated to work on these projects, we're excited about them. But, of course, it doesnt feel good to have our co-workers go to Dreamworks and never return.
Im curious to see what happens around here if (when?) Tangled is a hit.
Seems to have buzz so far. Not all of it is positive (trailer tone/music) but people are certainly aware/talking about it (unlike Bolt)
They don't all look good. Frankly, one of them looks very cool, one of them looks absolutely awful, and the others are "ehhhh."
Maybe Tangled will do well, but its release date seems almost calculated to prevent that, being right on top of Harry Potter. If Tangled tanks, look for the division to receive its final walking papers.
The constant layoffs and rehiring has worked for Sony, Rhythm and Hues, ILM, etc. so why wouldn't this work for Disney?
My sarcasm detector went through the roof. Good one.
DW is the only one really retaining talent and it's giving them healthy profits and the ability to expand capacity by making more films.
Mo films. Mo Money.
"They don't all look good. Frankly, one of them looks very cool, one of them looks absolutely awful, and the others are "ehhhh.""
Do you know or are you speculating?
"If Tangled tanks, look for the division to receive its final walking papers."
They always say that...
There's more animators than the industry needs right now. There's more capable animators compare to the number of animated projects out there that are good enough to keep them on a long term employment.
And don't worry... As long as the animators aren't picky about where or what they want to work next, they will not have a lot of trouble finding jobs, Tangled looks amazing so far, and these animators are amazingly talented. From what I heard, in the Siggraph 2010 job fair, most companies are hungry for people with experience! So they will be fine.
Oh also.. Be glad there's movies like Yogi Bear that keeps animator employed. ;) Yogi Bear makes those who complained a ton about it looks like assholes, when there are people out there that are so happy to be employed to work on animation projects in this economy.
"The constant layoffs and rehiring has worked for Sony, Rhythm and Hues, ILM, etc. so why wouldn't this work for Disney?:
This is the norm everywhere else, and was the norm for Disney as well in the '80's.
"DW is the only one really retaining talent and it's giving them healthy profits and the ability to expand capacity by making more films."
Which is why jeffery katzemberg is looking to sell dw animation. Some DW films do well in theaters, but beyond that, the ancilliaries don't make the investment/overhead very profitable.
You need to branch out and find new friends Steve. Such downers you hang out with.
What about all the people who are thrilled that Tangled is the best feature to come out of the RED (Roy E Disney) building in over a decade? Or that it's the best thing they've ever worked on? Sure we're exhausted but making something great isn't expected to be easy. If it was, every other studio would do it.
Morale is - tired. Tangled is something we're all proud of and we can't wait to get it out there. I'd say that sentiment goes for people staying or going and sometimes pride of accomplishment can ease the sting of not being carried until the next show needs to ramp up. The reality of where the studio is right now is that in order to survive, it can't stay big until it makes a profit.
"Morale is - tired."
That is the best comment yet on this thread. Simple, clear, and true.
There are exciting shows in the pipeline, but you're right, they arent ready for production yet. So the timing stinks.
About things not being ready for production?
It's been clear to me for a couple of years now, the union guy walking through the facility, that Disney didn't have nearly enough projects in development. They laid off a lot of veteran story artists, and upstairs in the story department it was pretty sleepy for quite a while.
Unlike the Disney veteran I quoted above, I don't believe the new management team is incompetent. I think they are consciously using the visual effects model: hire crew as needed, lay off crew as needed.
It's either that, or they simply dropped the ball and underestimated what they needed to keep the production pipeline filled and people working.
It really isn't complicated. If you have minimal feature development, you have minimal feature production.
KOTE wasnt heading the right direction, so it wasnt ready for production after Tangled. That's what happened.
Oh please. You need to have more projects in development. This isn't goddamn rocket science. It's simple math.
They loused up. And now a lot of people lose their jobs.
I'd be surprised if anything from Disney Feature Animation makes anything close to two-hundred million domestically.
I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
The way you wrote it up, Steve, it looks like you're saying that most of the animators and tds are facing layoffs. That's not true.
That's the way Amid seems to be taking it, based on this article. Which, I have no doubt will be the way it's picked up by the broader, non-fact-checking media. The telephone game has begun.
Management says it wants to get away from these large fluctuations in artist numbers, which they acknowledge is not good for morale or the artistic growth of the studio.
They have expressed to us that the goal is less show to show upheaval. They do not want the visual effects mode. I believe them. Even though this is a problem not caused by us, it is we who lose our jobs.
The way you wrote it up, Steve, it looks like you're saying that most of the animators and tds are facing layoffs. That's not true.
Only by the barest margins. Half the animators were layed off.
As far as management not wanting these large fluctuations--they've been saying that for awhile, no? For about three years now, in fact.
I'm sure it's true--they don't. But they also lack the discipline to lock off the story earlier. I can easily see the exact same thing happening for the next one.
Way to only report the BAD news Steve. Thanks.
Why not report on all the marketing being prepped for Tangled, or all the new art and standees in the building with all the Tangled artwork on it? Or if you were talking to lighters, why not report on how amazing the film is looking? Or report on how the animation on the film has wrapped and everyone is thrilled with it?
Or how, even though many of the run-of-picture hires were let go, that everyone is unanimously behind the film and really believe in it?
That doesnt make for news though, does it? No, but it sure gives Amid cannon fodder.
If you're really trying to help us, Steve, you're doing a piss poor job. Do you really think you're doing us a service by reporting this?
While I think Steve is making this sound much worse than it is, it still isn't great news. That said, I think it's well within the purview of our union rep to report on the employment prospects at signatory studios.
That can include comings and goings.
Steve, you got percentages? Put the factual data numbers together. Report on the information our union has, so that folks can best figure out their employment prospects around town.
But other than that, I agree. Let's not give fodder for the tabloids.
If you're really trying to help us, Steve, you're doing a piss poor job. Do you really think you're doing us a service by reporting this?
Meanwhile, you're just trying to whitewash things. No, not all layed off were "run of picture"--quite a few veterans got the boot. Steve has often mentioned that Tangled looks great. But this is about the employment situation and morale, and Steve is about right on those.
Steve is right and so is Amid.
I have friends there and they do tell me things are worse than you think. Only people who worked on Tangled and are kept really think there's nothing wrong there. They are playing the game.
It is definitely not like 2001. That was a wholesale bloodbath. There are no layoffs. People were told up front they were hired for the show and now their time is up. There are a few "veterans" who are not cutting the mustard anymore and being laid off, that happens everywhere as course of business. It's disingenuous to lump to hires hose separate issues together. Conversely, some run of picture who performed above and beyond were retained. How 'bout them apples? There is work and Bolt and Tangled are proof that things are moving in the right direction so everyone should just calm the f down.
To anonymous at 4:43:AM
You say that because you are STILL working there, so YOU should calm the f down.
Im not. Fail.
They have expressed to us that the goal is less show to show upheaval. They do not want the visual effects mode. I believe them.
Fine. You believe them. Yet I walked through the first floor yesterday and you could cut the gloom with a knife.
And a huge part of the crew is getting laid off. Long-termers are getting laid off. That's reality.
And I've listened to the division heads say, over and over, "Hey, we don't WANT to lay people off, we don't WANT to have the big turnover, we really don't."
But they keep doing it.
And I've had Andrew Millstein say to me, two years back, "Hey, we're rebuilding morale, we really want it a place people love to work ..." (etc.)
But I have people stopping me in the halls telling me how shitty things are, how depressed they are, over and over. And it's what I got yesterday when I was in the building. Yet again. You want me to lie about it, sugar coat it, I'm not your guy. I might be a Disney stockholder, but I'm not a company shill. Sorry.
(To be totally fair here, it's not everybody who's bummed and depressed. And most people are proud of the features, shorts being made, and the work they're doing.
But overall, the morale at Walt Disney Animation Studios is not good, and it's not a happy place.)
If you're really trying to help us, Steve, you're doing a piss poor job. Do you really think you're doing us a service by reporting this?
Please explain to me how it hurts to have the reality of Disney morale problems aired. How exactly does it negatively impact Disney animation employees?
I'm anxious to know.
I think Steve is a little jet lagged and cranky :)
Because you make it sound like it's EVERYBODY, which is patently not true.
If you would have been here today, where we had a big celebration of the end of Tangled animation, you'd have seen a larger percentage of happy people, directors and producers gushing about the film, and an overall happy morale.
But instead, you talked to a lighter who is getting laid off and upset about it, and suddenly slap a blanket statement on your website about the morale of the studio being "lower than a dachshund's belly." Thats irresponsible. Maybe a statement like "that individual's morale" would have been more appropriate.
Point being, WDAS is trying desperately to crawl back and you have to go and put out into the cyber world that it's a sad, unhappy place to be.
And for the record, it's a relatively quiet studio. Many of those people quietly walking down the hallways arent sad, just content. We're thrilled about Tangled, we're thrilled about Pooh, and we're thrilled about the upcoming slate.
Look, all these laid off employees want nothing more than to collect unemployment insurance. They're lazy, and just don't want to really work hard. According to teabaggers.
"We're thrilled about Tangled, we're thrilled about Pooh, and we're thrilled about the upcoming slate."
********
Glad to hear it !
So .... * ahem * what is on that upcoming slate everyone's so thrilled about ? Rumor has it that another 2D movie is at least a year and a half , or more, out from starting animation. (going through the usual slow development/story process) . So what are the 2D animators supposed to be doing during that time ?
Did the Pooh TV special really get scrapped or will the crew get to move on to that and maybe some other special projects to keep the 2D crew alive ?
Anon. 1:34 pm:
Message received. Everybody's thrilled, happy, content. The staffers and supes who've stopped me in the hall and talked to me in their offices are malcontents and non-representative. Got it.
And there's no gap in the production pipeline and no big layoffs. Everything is spiffy.
But just to let you know? I've been talking up Tangled for weeks. Months, even. Also Winnie the Pooh. You can go back and check.
Yours in irresponsibility.
Hulett
Wow, you take criticism as well as a 3rd grader. No wonder you're no longer an artist.
They didnt say everyone was happy, just correcting you in the assumption that everyone is UN-happy.
But you're right, your bi-weekly visits to the studio and discussions with a handful of people must be representative of the morale 100%.
PS) If you REALLY knew what was going on, you'd know there's plenty of projects in-between features that people are already working on (which cant be mentioned by name on this blog)
It sounds very sad over there and every year I know many people, myself included, keep hoping it will get better. Perhaps Rapunzel / Tangled, will earn back enough to certify a success for the company and clear away some of the gloom.
that will be a very good thanksgiving indeed
Oh great, a place where we can talk about Disney projects, that way we don't have to fill all Steve's other comment posts talking about them.
PS) If you REALLY knew what was going on, you'd know there's plenty of projects in-between features that people are already working on (which cant be mentioned by name on this blog)
Must be the reason everybody's being kept on. ;)
Hey genius, everyone that needs to be kept on is being kept on.
"Hey genius, everyone that needs to be kept on is being kept on."
That's right, the others?
They're The Expendables.
See them at their new job starting tonight at a theater near you!
1:34. You must be a show runner or someone who is a whip-cracker. You scurry among the sheep after throwing out the obligatory feedbag you call a party and interpret everyone smiling to be content and happy and oh so grateful to you for your meanial overpaid services. You'll be there after they are gone, moved onto another show. To crack the whip and scare the sheep. You give us the willies. But someday you'll get yours. Till then, you have nothing to do with the making of the picture. You are just a man-servant. Given power you think you have coming to you. You must be really good. But still, you dont make the pictures. How can you live with yourself. Why? You produce nothing. You make nothing and you get a check. Probably not as much as the artists. But you thrive on knowing they'll have theirs stopped. And they are too blue collar to ward off your useless energy you spew around. But if they did, and so correctly, wouldn't that be the better place for you? Yeah, down there. Just a runner. Fetch boy!
They are not expendable. By far everyone who is staying or going is super talented. But if like Steve says, there is nothing slotted. What would you do genius? Pay for a full production crew to do nothing? If money is tight you'd probably keep core teams until you ramp up. Maybe the gaps will disappear and then you'll stop complaining.
Hey 8:07. Im 1:34. And Im an artist, not a producer you dipshit. Feel free to demonize me if it makes you feel better, but Im a rank and file artist just like everyone else.
And I agree with the above poster. Not everything is perfect, but its not terrible either, which was my original point.
Bottom line : Disney isn't fun.
And you can thank all the pixar leadership
for NOT making it a better place for artists
but a WORSE place. They know what
they are doing. It's just business as they
travel back and forth on their private jet.
Lassiter and Catmull should be ashamed
of how the artists feel. And I'm not talking
about their group of favorites.
Dreamworks.
They will keep you
on, from project to project. It may not be
perfect, but they respect each artist.
And management works at keeping
them on. Work hard and they actually
respect you, glad that you are there and
want to keep you. And they don't just
say it, like Milstein, they Do it.
I don't understand why Milstein is still there. What does he do? He was in charge of Florida's studio, Secret Lab and now Feature Animation.
I think he is a puppet and is becoming a rich puppet.
Please, let's not start on Dreamworks. It's not perfect either.
True. Milstein IS worthless. And he is worse at public gaffes than Joe Biden.
They should relieve him of his position and hire 5 more animators with his salary.
The good folks at ImageMovers Digital share your pain (at Disney Feature Animation) but that's life isn't it?
Anyone who thought turning Disney Feature Animation around overnight was going to be easy (or fast) is delusional. Sadly, the turn around started about the time the bush economic debacle did--and new management came into place. Hollywood's focus on franchise material doesn't make things easier. That doesn't mean the films couldn't be good, but it does add another level of pressure that Disney animation just doesn't need right now.
I bet Disney management is working very hard on prepping ideas for upcoming films, and wish they didn't have to do the hire/layoff routine. Watch--I bet both Tangled, Frankenweenie, Mars Needs Moms, and the Pixar films all do well, and Disney will have bought yet a little more time to get more into the pipeline.
I do wish, however, they could develop some smaller films with lesser budgets that didn't always hinge on being big "event" films.
I think it's time for a name change. How about "The Flame Blog?"
In defense of Ed Catmull and John Lasseter, both were well intentioned when arriving at Disney, and you gotta give 'em credit for that. However, this ain't little Pixar any longer and both are employed by the Big Mouse.
If you think they have unlimited power, then you clearly don't know much about corporate America.
I don't understand why Milstein is still there. What does he do? He was in charge of Florida's studio, Secret Lab and now Feature Animation.
Millstein's had more company horses shot out from under him than G. A. Custer.
I am yet another anonymous (wimp) commenter .
The only opinions I respect on this blog are from people who have the guts to sign their own names (like Floyd Norman and Steve Hulett, and a handful of others).
The rest of us ... well , "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
So you only respect comments from those who aren't working in the industry?
Cause anyone actually working in the industry wouldn't dare write how they really feel, and then sign their name on it.
> "So you only respect comments from
> those who aren't working in the
> industry?
> Cause anyone actually working in
> the industry wouldn't dare write
> how they really feel, and then sign
> their name on it."
>
I thought Floyd worked at Pixar
sounds worse now then it was 6 years ago over there. it has to turn around you can't keep pumping in that kind of money , the ship has to turn rightside up soon.
Worked. Past tense.
Some ways worse, some ways better. It's healthier creatively, but the mood is not great.
The honeymoon is over. I think there was a lot of naivete, and that's finally worn off. Hopefully people in power are more realistic about the challenges they face.
The giddiness of the studio when lassetter took over has definitely given way to more of a grim determination to succeed.
Floyd is retired.
I like the attitude. Its more of a "kick some ass, take no prisoners" attitude. We're serious about making good films, no excuses.
I just hope Tangled makes a ton of money
"I thought Floyd worked at Pixar"
No--I think he freelanced there very briefly 10 or more years ago.
It seems amazing anything gets made at all at the mouse. Everyone posting to this blog sounds scared shitless.
I've heard the culture at Disney is very messed up and hard to change and it seems it will take much more than a few films to turn things around.
Despite what I think about Katzenberg and co, at least they sound like they know how to treat their employees. Nice campus, fancy benefits and long term employment... leads to higher morale, retaining talent and quality production teams.
When places like DW down the street and Pixar keep their artists for the long haul, it leaves slim pickings for the House of Mouse.
Amazing things are getting made at "the mouse". Creativity is at a high. You on the other hand have only made an uninformed opinion.
Yes, I worked "very briefly" on "Toy Story2" and "Monsters, Inc."
Somehow, all those long nights at Pixar never seemed all that brief.
With pixar leadership in the room, asking animators to speak up, it was shown that whomever talked was let go.
And that was with both John and Ed asking the questions.
It all starts with the leaders. They set it up to be in a safe
setting to talk yet everyone learned very quickly not to.
There's a reason that they are trusted to make a good or great film but it is at the cost at the lack of trust the crew has for them. As people. But so what. The films are great and that's all that matters. Right ?
"Somehow, all those long nights at Pixar never seemed all that brief."
Yes. I agree. Nights do drag on when you are bored.....
(Just kidding!)
"The films are great and that's all that matters. Right ?"
Well, they're not great yet, but they will be. And yes, that's all that matters....MAKING MONEY. You reap what you sow.
I had to learn the hard way, that whatever comes out of Andrew Millsteins mouth, you have to believe the opposite. That guy is worse than a used car salesperson.
"There are a few "veterans" who are not cutting the mustard anymore and being laid off"
Judging from the comments here about low morale, no projects, constant lay-offs, poor management and empty promises; it sounds more like the studio isn't cutting the mustard anymore for the "veterans."
Everything you just said just shows such a complete lack of knowledge of what is really going on at the studio that it verges on pathetic. You are completely speculating based on the comments left here which means that you just talking out of your behind. Thus contributing nothing to the... oh, forget it.
It’s sad to see all the backbiting here because we all want the same thing. All of us want Disney to be great again, right?
But, here’s the problem. In days of yore, Disney produced great films with basically two managers. Ken Peterson and Andy Engman. Like ‘em or not they basically stayed out of the way and let the pictures get made. Their concerns were time and budgets. Our concern was making great pictures. It was as simple as that.
I’d like to see Disney do that again.
If only it were just speculation or complete lack of knowledge. I truly wish that were the case, but you can't argue with reality. There is a reason the studio is in the state it's in and why these comments exist. Take off the blinders.
Hopefully Tangled breaks records, the next project has an amazing screening, the guy on the lot in charge of what movies get made starts supporting the animation studios projects and things change.
"All of us want Disney to be great again, right?"
I dont think thats true, actually. People just love to hate Disney too much. (of course, they still flock to the movies and theme parks in droves, but the next day act all elitist. Same goes for Wal-Mart and popular chain restaurants, heh)
Sadly, much of that is their own doing.
When renting a car in San Francisco, the clerk behind the counter asked where I worked. Jokingly, I said, "The Evil Empire." Without a moments hesitation the guy said, "Oh, Disney."
The company needs to work on their own image, don't you think?
8:57, there is no "state it's in". These comments exist because of the same reason they exist on every online forum. A very vocal misinformed minority dominates. You're the one who needs to take out the binders and stop wallowing in such negativity. Hundreds of people don't work there because they hate the place do they?
It looks like my comment is too long so I'll break it into two parts.
Part 1
Please explain to me how it hurts to have the reality of Disney morale problems aired. How exactly does it negatively impact Disney animation employees?
Steve, I'm Clay Kaytis, the one of the Animation Supervisors on Tangled. I've worked at Disney for 16 years but we've never spoken to each other aside from the one time you poked your head in my cube years ago and said "Everything OK in here?" It was OK.
I'll explain how you hurt us.
As the business rep you represent US, the artists working at WDAS. If we weren't here, the need for your services would diminish, so I'll assume you want us here. But in order to be here we need to make movies people want to see.
You seem to separate the corporate machine from the artists in its belly, so you're willing to tear down the machine without concern for those working inside.
What you fail to grasp is that we, the artists AND production support, are trying to do something great, trying to live up to the promise of the name on our doors. To do that we must make wonderful movies. Tangled is a movie that stood against terribly stacked odds of little time and the highest standards of quality, and if I do say so myself, it is an animation triumph.
To make more films that are this creatively satisfying, we know we need to work with and continually attract the best talent in the world. We WANT the best talent to work here. If an artist on the outside tracks the progression of quality from Chicken Little to Meet the Robinsons to Bolt to Tangled it is clear that something good and exciting is happening - something maybe even enticing enough to get said artist to send in a reel or portfolio. We WANT that. ANY studio wants that.
But what if they see your frequent posts about how deeply depressed everyone is, how the future is dim, how the slate is thin? As the Union Representative, you are a voice of some authority because of your privileged access and people on the outside give your words more weight than any other blogger off the street. (Heck, your posts even qualify as "news" on other blogs.) Because of what you write, artists may decide not to apply for a job and that creates two lost opportunities - one opportunity for our artists to be challenged by another great artist and another opportunity for the artist to challenge his or herself with creatively gratifying work.
The more great artists we have contributing to our films, the higher the quality, the more people will want to work on the films. The cycle continues and success follows quality. Success equals more films, equals more employed artists for you to represent and everyone's happy. Being consistently painted as the "most-likely-to-depress" studio puts a sturdy kink in that cycle.
That is how you negatively impact Disney animation employees.
(continues in part 2...)
Part 2
I don't have a problem with reporting on the reality of Disney morale, but your evaluation of "reality" doesn't equal everyone's, just some.
Who knows, maybe as the Anim Sup I'm "The Man" and I don't know what it's really like on the floor, or maybe I only have a view from the animation department's perspective. I do know what I was told by animators who exited after Tangled. One said he understands now what it's like to work with people who are driven by passion - a missing element he couldn't put his finger on at other studios. Another said it was the hardest thing he'd ever done and he'd do it again in an instant. Others said they have never been so proud to work on a film, that their approach to animation and performance was totally transformed. These are the people who were layed off. I think it's safe to say that the people who stayed on are equally ebullient. The animation is complete and I don't see people running for the doors. They are rolling up their sleeves to raise the bar on the next project. There are no contracts and people are here because they want to be part of what's happening. This sounds more like the studio I work at and the artists I'm surrounded by every day.
On a related note: I searched but I couldn't find it, but I seem to remember a comment of yours in response to criticism of your reporting of details you discovered during your studio walk-throughs. People were wondering why does being shown some scenes or observing drawings on the walls give you the authority to divulge confidential information on future projects? You said up until this point the management never asked you not to, so you didn't feel it was an issue. Well, this is an artist asking. Please don't publish reports on things we are not ready to show to the world and please be more accurate in your reporting on morale. It makes the TAG Blog sound like a tabloid. If I really want to know about morale or the progress on upcoming films at other studios, I'll just pick up the phone and call my friends there.
I've been here a LONG time through ups and downs and I can proudly say that now is the highest point and things are only looking up. Steve, since you're not doing us any favors, let me at least put something out there to the people who have read this far (thanks for that, BTW): Of course, most of my credibility rests on whether your evaluation of Tangled matches mine. So check it out later this year and then decide if that's the kind film you'd like to be a part of. If you're a great artist who wants to be continually challenged to do more than you ever thought was possible, send in your reel/portfolio. Great things are happening.
Thanks,
Clay Kaytis
Wow, well said Clay. Looking forward to seeing Tangled. I have been more than impressed with what I have seen so far!
Clay -
I'm a student who will be graduating in two years, and I wanted to thank you for your comment.
THANK YOU.
Reading all of the negativity toward Disney in the past couple years has been extremely downheartening. Because, as you said, blogs like this and fan sites are really the best source of information about the industry that I have at this point, as a student.
It's great to hear such an inspiring, positive statement about the state of things at WDAS. And it's also great to hear that everyone seems so excited about Tangled. I can't wait to see it in November.
Here's hoping to be working under you one day, and thank you again for your comments.
I have been following the comments here for a while, and I am glad to hear that there is an amazing supervisor at Disney, Clay Kaytis. :) Thank you for the wisdom, and thank you for your comments on the matter.
Like Matt, I feel really sad reading all the depressing news, and as a recent graduate, I don't feel hopeful at all reading the sad news that I can be part of this entire passion-driven animation production some day. However, it's not about the studio you are working for some times and how long you can stay on, it's more about doing what you love. If the company doesn't keeps you, it's just part of the many life challenges to keep moving on.
-Amy
Thank you for your insight Clay. I'm a big fan of your podcast and website. I appreciate all that you have done for students like myself, so I hope you don't take my comments in the wrong way. I'm a big fan of yours.
I have been reading this guild website for a long time and I do consider it to be a news site. The posts about Disney do seem to be on the down side. But I have to say Steve does provide a valuable service. "Top Talent" should know what they are getting into. If Disney can not attract "Top Talent" because they can not provide a stable and encouraging work environment for them then that's Disney's fault not Steve's. If Disney wants that to change they should change what they do not the way people report on it.
But what you just wrote and what is being reported on this blog is NOT the whole truth or accurate! It's not news. Steve always talks to the same Art Director, the same "supe", and a couple of others to get the scuttlebutt. He does not get opinions from the other %99 of the people, most of which he has never talked too besides a onetime "hi" years ago.
I've never even seen the guy. Couldnt pick him out of a lineup if my life depended on it. Ive been at Feature Animation 6 years...
And how many union meetings have you gone to? (That goes out to A LOT of people expressing the "I never see Steve" sentiments).
It's a two-way street. I'm sure he'd be glad to hear your side of the story if you actually made an effort to express it.
If this blog turns into nothing, but a cheerleading site and a way to decieve new recruits as Clay suggests it should, then I wouldn't even bother reading it anymore than I bother reading Clay's stuff or any niumber of the other Disney fansites.
As for whether Steve is getting a correct reading or not on a studio? Having known Steve for years and knowing his experience, I would take his feelings (and they are just that - just as Clay's are 'his feelings') about the state of an animation studio over most others. I doubt Steve just talks to the same people over and over and if you want his message to be different pull your head out 'of your cubicle', if things are so nice, and tell him.
It's more important for us professionals to get a feeling for the state of a studio than for new kids, that may or may not ever get an opportunity to work in the biz, to think Disney is all rainbows and butteflies.
If those students don't want to hear negativity go to Clay's blog. Go. Learn from him. Clay will go far in this biz...he has learned to play the executive game. And if you think he's brave for signing his real name...not at all. He knows the execs monitor this board and he's looking for that pat on the back for his cheerleading efforts to help him stay a little bit longer than the guy/gal in the cubicle next to him.
I'd rather this reamain a professionals/union member site only anyway.
I have to say, as a recent graduate who's been dealing with horrible economy and job hunting this last year, of all the companies, i had the worst experiences with Disney unfortunately.
Don't get me wrong, I want Disney to succeed more than ever, be a great place to work for all aspiring animators and passionate artists, though sadly, that wasn't the vibe i got from the people i've gotten in touch with at all.
I've seen surprisingly unqualified people get jobs, hiring of people with tons of experience from studios like Pixar and Blue Sky for the talent development program which is meant to be opening Disney's doors to fresh new and enthusiastic talent etc.
And when I read Clay's comments, as much as agreeing with almost all of it, him mentioning Disney being open to great artists made me put on my cynical suit. I've found through out this year that Disney isn't necessarily after good talent but more the names on their resumes, slowly killing all the enthusiasm new graduates have.
Of course I could all be saying this cause I'm a bitter new graduate without a job and maybe not as talented as he thinks but still, something to think about.
All I can do is hope Tangled and Disney does very well so they'll have more projects and they'll hopefully need soo many people to get things done that after hiring Pixar Interns who couldn't make it there after internship and experienced people for jr. positions, they'll have some more space for passionate new comers who are willing to work their butts off.
-Bitteranimator
Once again, jilted, cynical, uninformed naysayers. People who feel "wronged" or that a corporation "owes" them something. Or just plain trolls. Wake up. And what was that 12:33? Go to the union meeting? Again? So he can hear our side of the story? What story? The one he is creating! Please. That's a one way street! And what about you 6:32, pull my head out my cube and talk to Steve when he is walking around? ROTFL! Fat chance you actually see him. Besides I've got a job to do. I don't have time to "gossip" or time to write a blog about it either. And bitterboy, that's life. Man up will ya? you'll go further.
I have a feeling that despite how well Tangled does in the theaters, that it will be the last CG feature produced by WDFA. Why should they do more when they have Pixar? If this is so, it was because it became THE PLAN. And that means anyone kept on up until this point, plus those that were hired on, would be coming to a definate endpoint as did those who were let go in 2D at the end of Range. Steve was there then, and he is there now. It is so obvious what is going on and what shall happen. Best of luck to those left behind in the aftermath, but to those being let go: you have a lifetime ahead of you doing the same kind of work all over the place in this town. Just dont feel so special because the place you work has a big name on it. It may look good back in your small hometown, but how reality feels doesnt make it worth neither mentioning, nor disrespecting.
"He knows the execs monitor this board"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
*snort* wait a minute wait a minute.....
no.....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
Why should they do more when they have Pixar?
This has been a question for years, and it can be answered simply: As long as there is an appetite for animated movies, the more studios you have to make them with, the higher your revenue stream.
Sure, Disney hasnt performed well in the last whatever years, but you cant deny the cash cow potential. Heck, even startups are making dough (Despicable Me, for example).
I think a more accurate prediction would be, is if Tangled does gangbusters, we'll be seeing a lot more from Disney. If it flops, we might not.
But there's no way Tangled will be Disney's last CG movie if it makes a ton of money. Thats just stupid.
I'd Like to second what Clay said.
I've only worked at a few other studios. My career is very young when stacked against others, but I'd rather be animating at Disney over ANY other animation studio out there. The people are wonderful, the projects are amazing, and the future is brighter than ever. I feel extremely lucky to have had a chance to work on the film Tangled. It is something that as an artist I truly believe in, and I feel privileged to have worked on it. Working on this project has changed the way I approach this craft for the better. This studio has pushed all of us to reach another level as artists. What more can you ask for. We are all really excited about all of the projects lined up and are primed and ready to get our hands dirty. All of my friends at other studios are also excited for Disney's future. (so who are all these people who are so negative...) I dismiss the negative comments I see on blogs or wherever, It just shows a lack of knowledge and poor character. People who is so negative are more than likely not contributing to any team, and obviously could care less about the industry. The industry being as small, and tight nit as it is, has no room for negativity and a lack of respect. This industry needs people that are excited about what they do and are ready to push themselves and those around them forward.
-M
I've actually been told that WDAS's death is near.
An executive "implied" that there was a reason that WDAS features are put against blockbusters upon release while Pixar always gets the "better" release dates. People at the company have stopped believing in WDAS's commercial power and basically want it out as they regard the studio a significant casuality.
It first starts with a gap in the release schedule, then you get one feauture every 2 years,then...
Well, to be honest he didn't say they will actually close the studio but he did say that there is a plan to reduce feautures produced by WDAS significantly, like one in every 2 or 3 years.
Only if Tangled does really really well maybe the fate of the studio can be salvaged.
@Monday, August 16, 2010 11:49:00 PM
'If Disney can not attract "Top Talent" because they can not provide a stable and encouraging work environment for them then that's Disney's fault not Steve's. If Disney wants that to change they should change what they do not the way people report on it.'
Well said! The problem is beyond this blog. If Disney wants to entice top talent, they should stop alienating top talent. It's a small industry.
But, you see, Clay is worried that young talent that isn't networked will read this blog and realize what a cesspool Disney has become.
If only Steve could talk about rainbows then maybe they could trick the newbies that don't want much money into working long hours there...
Good plan, Clay...now go get your pat on the back.
11:20:00. Troll.
I can't help but feel this is all Bush's fault.
Bush deserves a shoe planted on the side of his head.
Clay, your a fool, I remember when you were a regular guy but now you went to the dark side to keep your job. You turned in to a power hungry politician just like every one still left at Disney. You have a good hart you just have to find it again.
"Because of what you write, artists may decide not to apply for a job and that creates two lost opportunities"
Reporting the state of affairs in this industry should be unbiased. That means you report the bad and the good. Reporting only good things about something creates a false image. If Mr. Clay wants the world to believe it's all rainbows and bunny rabbits, he can start his own blog.
For an artist, making the treck form whatever part of the world to California is no small inconvinience. It's a huge committment.
Why shouldn't a big studio make a higher level of committment than to offer contracts that are 8 months in lenght??
You have to understand that Clay is at the top now (He was not there before, specially in the hand drawn days)and he wants to keep his job. By saying what he said right here on the Union Blog, he knows that management will read it too and will call him in and say good job, Clay! We are proud of you.
He knows how to play the game and his wife too as she works as production manager.
Do not believe all he said. Things are not that great there.
wow there are alot of idiots that follow this blog. Most of them are washed up and bitter...and then people that obviously have zero knowledge of whats going on, but love to hear themselves talk....and or both.
Anonymous 5:08:00
Clay didnt say everything was great. Let me quote DIRECTLY from his post
I don't have a problem with reporting on the reality of Disney morale, but your evaluation of "reality" doesn't equal everyone's, just some.
So, are you illiterate or just stupid?
And criticizing someone's wife as well? Shame on you. It's a good thing that didnt happen face to face, because in all reality, that deserves a good ass whipping.
Im not kidding.
Hmm...methinks Clay decided to pst a few of these anonymously just to have someone agree with him....especially the one up above at5:21
Gosh, Steve you sure were wrong. Sounds like morale at Disney is just PEACHY!!!!!
"Because of what you write, artists may decide not to apply for a job and that creates two lost opportunities"
I hope young people do not work at Disney as there first job.
Either there ego will be inflated to an unrealistic level or they will be degraded to do all the crap work.
Disney is the worst example for way a major studio should function.
Why do people Hide behind The "Anonymous" nametag? What if these people had to be held accountable for what they say. Just saying.
Wow, petty grievances. Personal insults. Threats! Ignorance, trolling, vile invectives. Lies, potshots. This is what our union business representative believes is a good thing! Somehow this will make our industry better! Creating a backwater, a cesspool if you will, were lower lifeforms can validate one sided "reporting". What a bunch of bullshit. I can't wait until you pull out the whole "I was in Nam" crap to try and shut everyone up. First AN now the TAG blog devolving into nothing.
HEY! My computer is showing all the names of the anonymous posters! I just put my cursor over the "anon" and it shows name and email address!
Kidding:) Just a little levity, for those who enjoy that sort of thing.
Clay, I write this as someone who knows and respects you, and as someone who has worked at Disney as well as at several other top studios. I'm afraid that the animators out in our very small community don't need this blog or Steve's insights to know that Disney has been a sour, embittering place to work for quite a while. You're blaming the messenger.
I ask you, how many times can people get their hopes up that 'this time it's different'? How many times can you tell people 'if we just stay positive and work hard, everything has a chance to be great'? Everything you wrote is the kind of stuff that was said towards the end of Bolt, and Robinsons, and Chicken Little, and Princess and the Frog. It's gets a little old, this constant mantra that the 'real problem' is animator's negativity. The fact is, Disney has been a negative place, where people who dare to doubt, dare to question, dare to be skeptical are driven out. Disney is running out of talented people to drive away. I wish the problem really was Steve Hulett. That would be an easy problem to solve. But you can only blame the messenger so long.
And Clay, you chose to ignore that Hulett has been relentlessly upbeat about how Tangled looks, and how good he hears it is from the crew. He's been consistent with that.
I've been at Disney, I'm working with a lot of people who used to be there, and I'm friends with a precious few who still are. Steve's only telling it like it is. I know that goes against the grain of the new management, but it's not the 'perception' of life at Disney that needs to improve. It's the actual feature animation work environment.
Maybe Tangled will be the hit it deserves to be, and everyone will chill out a little, and the workplace will stop feeling like a place where you have to be a Stepford animator to survive. Personally, I'm happy to be out of there, and working at a studio where having passion AND having opinions are valued and rewarded.
9:12
You must be disney management. You should wash your mouth out with a sloppy sudsy slippery bar of soap.
Were the across the board salary cuts artist-driven?
Wait. Not salary cuts. What's the term when you work more hours for the same pay?
Anyway. There's reasons for the morale that can't all be blamed on negativity. Just a fact, people don't like making less pay while doing more work.
There's a reason nobody from dreamworks is clamoring to come over to disney.
Let's face it. This is a tough industry if you don't manage to make it into the top 25% - whether through skill, timing, politics, or some combination of those.
Its a shame, but we work in a business that makes high cost and high risk products. The stuffed shirts are going to make the staffing/budgetary decisions they feel that have to make to keep a company healthy.
I feel for the people who were let go (Heck, I've been there many times myself)- but the veteran pros in the middle probably saw the writing on the wall and tried to land another gig somewhere else. It's simply what we in the middle have to do as we strive to improve.
I dream of a stable job where passion and quality are valued - but, sadly, that is the exception in this industry and not the rule. So, if you dont enjoy animating and/or the process of animation for their own sakes, regardless of the project, this industry will eat you alive. Find your morale in yourself and in your buddies, because no company is ever going give it to you.
Yeah! We've made it past a 100, people! Let's keep it up with the venting. Moving on to 200!!!
"You have a good hart you just have to find it again."
What are you, in third grade? Can you not even know how to spell your own ignorance? Really???!!!
hart???
Please..
Clay, I write this as someone who knows and respects you, and as someone who has worked at Disney as well as at several other top studios. I'm afraid that the animators out in our very small community don't need this blog or Steve's insights to know that Disney has been a sour, embittering place to work for quite a while. You're blaming the messenger.
I ask you, how many times can people get their hopes up that 'this time it's different'? How many times can you tell people 'if we just stay positive and work hard, everything has a chance to be great'? Everything you wrote is the kind of stuff that was said towards the end of Bolt, and Robinsons, and Chicken Little, and Princess and the Frog. It's gets a little old, this constant mantra that the 'real problem' is animator's negativity. The fact is, Disney has been a negative place, where people who dare to doubt, dare to question, dare to be skeptical are driven out. Disney is running out of talented people to drive away. I wish the problem really was Steve Hulett. That would be an easy problem to solve. But you can only blame the messenger so long.
And Clay, you chose to ignore that Hulett has been relentlessly upbeat about how Tangled looks, and how good he hears it is from the crew. He's been consistent with that.
I've been at Disney, I'm working with a lot of people who used to be there, and I'm friends with a precious few who still are. Steve's only telling it like it is. I know that goes against the grain of the new management, but it's not the 'perception' of life at Disney that needs to improve. It's the actual feature animation work environment.
Maybe Tangled will be the hit it deserves to be, and everyone will chill out a little, and the workplace will stop feeling like a place where you have to be a Stepford animator to survive. Personally, I'm happy to be out of there, and working at a studio where having passion AND having opinions are valued and rewarded.
BREAKING NEWS:
It's official; after 2011, WDAS will only produce one feature every two years!
So, it's Winnie the Pooh in 2011, Reboot Ralph in 2013, and the new feature in 2015, and so on...
It's much easier to move 'gently into the night' when everyone forgets about you.
If they stop making as many films as often as the other studio, but actually use that time to make it a better film, then I'm all for that.
Well said Clay. I really don't understand the amount of venom and hate here directed at you and Disney in general.
The people calling Disney a cesspool and an awful place to work are clearly out of touch with the reality at Disney now and of the industry as a whole. I just came off of Tangled and got to work with some of the most talented, passionate, and for the most part happy (gasp!) people in the industry. I would go back in a heart beat. I am curious where is the mythical studio of sunshine and daisies where every project is awesome, there are no politics, and no one gets let go? Disney was far and away the best experience I've had in the industry thus far.
It's unfortunate that positive voices get outright dismissed at corporate shills.
Can anyone say "Stockholm Syndrome"?
You can say it, but it doesnt mean its true.
I'm keeping my post "Anonymous" to eliminate speculation that I'm trying to gain the favor of Disney execs and supervisors. I'm not management; I'm not Clay; I am a happy Disney animator.
Is Disney all rainbows? Actually, yes. Everyone knows rainbows take a lot of sun, and a little rain. Obviously, no one likes layoffs. It hurts everyone to see our friends and talented coworkers leave. We're working hard to change the need for layoffs with Tangled and future projects, and I sincerely hope to see everyone come back in the near future. But despite this "rain," Disney is a much happier place than most of these comments suggest, and like Malcon, there is absolutely no where else I'd rather be. The people, including Top Talent, are inspiring...the projects are inspiring...the future is exciting.
I wish you could all be around to witness what it's really like to work with the people you so quickly lambaste. Clay Kaytis is one of the most genuine, hard working, and self-sacrificing people you will ever meet. He's not playing any games. And those pats on the back he doesn't seek, he deserves (not that he's gotten any).
A note to Mr. Hulett: While I appreciate attempts at honest reporting, please keep in mind that when you poke your head in our cubes and offices - those sad, depressed looks are often brought on by visions of our misquoted comments TAGed in one of your bleak blog posts.
Clay is right - this exaggerated negativity hurts us. It brings down morale. It spreads false rumors. I heard all these rumors of doom and gloom before starting at Disney...I'm so glad they were just Grim fairytales.
-Rainbow Brite
Rainbow Brite took the words right out of my mouth!
Working on Tangled was one of the most difficult, but also most rewarding experiences of my life, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. And it was thanks to people like Clay and the other supervisors and crew that made it so special. And I think this "magic" will ultimately show up on screen when you guys see Tangled.
So take all the negativity you read on this thread with a grain of salt, and think about the motives as to why someone would write something so personal, and so negative.
But above all, just know that there's a lot of genuinely content, happy people here.
PS) Im getting an executive back rub right now, as I write this. OH MY GOD it's awesome!!!!!!!
Wow, sounds like the Animation department had a different experience than other departments. It's probably quite inspiring to work so closely with Glen Keane.
When this movie is done, I never want it back. The work looks great. The people are great. The film will be fantastic. But I'm tired, burnt, being less creative and making less money than I did on Bolt. Never felt like more of a cog in a machine than now, and I've been here for a long time.
Just to say, folks who say things are fantastic: your experience doesn't discount the fact that others might be experiencing something different, and that experience is legitimately different.
Also to the people complaining: just because you had it bad doesn't mean that everyone who had it good are just corporate shills.
Aparently things were great in other departments. I'm really happy for those folks!
Everyone, can everyone calm the hell down and realize that some people had it bad, and that's their honest feelings (and not because they're negative nellies), and some people had it good, and that's THEIR honest feelings (and not because they're pollyannas or corporate kiss-butts).
Also, the people who took personal shots at Clay need to frigging chillax. We're just making movies here, and the hate ain't worth what it does to your insides.
Finally, well put and balanced.
Too close to the truth, eh?
Nothing to be ashamed of...it happens to a lot of people and with therapy they get over it eventually
For or Against what Steve originally wrote.
It's nice to hear artists speak up about how they feel within their work environment. Not that I don't trust Steve in his writings, it's hard to gain a real perspective on how things are going from just one person.
Whether people feel negative, or positive right now in their morale. It's nice to hear them speak up in defence for their thoughts and feelings.
Anonymous, bitter?
Party of one, your table is ready.
All is not doom and gloom in the Hat Building. It'll be amazing how much negativity disappears once they have a true hit.
Negativity is too easy to wade in to. No thank you.
Something needs to be said regarding this, as this has gotten really out of control. It is important to remember that this TAG blog is read by a limited number of people within the animation community.
How would you feel if Steve posted this information on Facebook instead? Well, that would be unforgiveable! Right?
Well, interestingly enough the very people that don't want this negativity to be "public" have replied to this thread and have posted the links to this very blog on their Facebook pages. Not only that, but while "patting themselves on the back" for it.
It begs to question, which is more public: this forum or Facebook?
Facebook is a social networking community comprised of millions of subscribers WORLDWIDE, many of whom would never read this blog otherwise.
I'm not sure this type of conversation is meant for the masses or should be readily shared in such a large community of people like Facebook, which spreads like wildfires.
Gee, thanks Dad for the internet lesson.
"Gee, thanks Dad for the internet lesson."
To you and all of the nasty, snippy, laying in wait, pissy little balls of negative energy...God loves you...just a little less than the nicer people;)
@10:22 You don't know what are you talking about. This blog hosted under google's blogger service is completely more searchable and spidered by search engines unless it is set up to be ignored, which it isn't. Facebook has privacy controls and isn't searched unless pages are public. Just throw this url into any search engine to see. If you have a problem with your facebook "friends" posting on their private walls why do you take the cowards' route and comment here anonymously? You don't understand friendship or the Internet. Noob.
There may be people that read this who aren't in the business, but the majority that do tend to work in animation. Most would find the rantings that go on here about the union and such, very boring. I'm not really worried about that.
Chris Wedge, is that you?
No, it's not Chris Wedge. He is one of "them," not "us."
@1:09 Friendship. Coward. That sounds personal. I'm sorry. Do I even know you? If I did maybe I would post on your wall instead of here.
As for 'Noob' I'll take full credit on that one.
As of yesterday, I was completely unfamiliar with TAG and that was my first time posting here. The only reason I came to this site in the first place was because the topic of this blog came up when chatting with my classmates. We have been following Tangled religiously. My friend posted a facebook status update and url that she got from a former classmate who claimed the source came from someone at Disney.
We're not even 100% sure who's facebook page it was from or where it originated, so I guess I don't have all the information. Yes, I guess I'm one of the 'uninformed idiots.' We just figured if we were able to access all this info via facebook, who else could it reach? We were just trying to help (by I guess, stating the obvious) because we care.
On the flip side, we thought Clay's (and others) posts here were very good and encouraging to us students. We are huge Disney fans and I for one would love to work there some day. Especially with Glen Keane! I can't believe for a second it is as bad as some people are making it out to be, but this kind of negativity spreading really saddens me. It just seems like this Steve guy isn't the only one putting the information out there, is all I was getting at.
Please don't start pointing fingers at friends. I just thought I was trying to help to stop this from spreading further, but I guess it backfired. Being a student I had no business posting on this blog and I should have just stayed out of this. If I offended anyone, I'm sorry.
-Denise
@Denise. You have nothing to be sorry for! Keep posting and don't give a second thought to the negative tirades that you see on this blog.
Frankly, in person most of these anonymous posters are really very nice people! There's just something about the ability to be anonymous that makes a few of them turn into cranky know-it-alls. Someone should do a study:)
Cheers!
Bob & Rob
I still say it's Bush's fault. Someone should do a study:)
This post has degenerated to the point of being just a bunch of talking heads screaming at each other and no one listening to anyone.
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