This comment below caught my eye:
... When your OWN MEMBERSHIP has no idea of the union benefits, let alone outsiders, you have a massive, massive messaging problem. And it hurts all of us, especially those of us who want to see membership grow. ...
At the risk of chronic redundancy, when you work under the jurisdiction of The Animation Guild, you get three pensions.
The first is a Defined Benefit Plan with a five-year qualifying period. When you qualify for it, you get a monthly check at retirement age.
The second is a lump-sum payout from the Individual Account Plan, into which your employer pays from $4000 to $5000 per year. (The amount is a percentage of the Minimum Wage Rate at which a given employee is working.)
The third is an optional 401(k) Plan into which you can defer up to $16,500 of your annual salary.
We talk and post about these pensions all the time. We hold weekly orientation lunches for new members where we expound on them in great detail. We put pension details on our website and in our newsletter. Even so, we get members who are astounded that they have all these freaking pensions.
Sometime we feel like tearing our hair out, but we press on, letting people know the pension benefits that are out there, helping them to fight poverty in their old age. We feel it's our solemn duty as good union reps and upstanding American citizens.
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I know that you occasionally post about the pensions, but you missed my point. My point is about messaging.
It's all in how you PHRASE it.
When you start off by mentioning the words "Defined Benefit Plan"...YOU'VE ALREADY LOST ME!!! My eyes have glazed. My lids have drooped.
Instead, start off by saying, in BOLD PRINT, and 52-point font size, "YOU GET $5,000 EXTRA A YEAR, AUTOMATICALLY!! AND THAT'S JUST THE BEGINNING!!"
This should be the heading on the top front page of every Pegboard. It should emblazon the top of the Tag Blog.
The proof that current, redundant posts about it aren't working is that I have YET to meet a single co-worker under the age of 40 who knew it!
Try this experiment, Steve: on your next studio walkabout, ask 10 random workers if they know how much pension they're getting every year. Or how much they've accumulated so far. Just ask them. I suspect you'll quickly agree with my assessment.
It's just a helpful, friendly suggestion.
So because you can't be bothered to find out what something means, the messaging from TAG is bad? Interesting...
Teabaggers need things spelled out, and expect everything for free.
Yep. That is ABSOLUTELY what it means.
Because the union is in the persuasion business.
It needs to persuade fairly significant numbers of people to fight for unionization, and persuade those same people to withstand the coordinated, sophisticated attacks of the highly paid union-busting firms.
Those union-busting firms certainly have THEIR messaging down. That's one of the reasons they have been so successful. But unions, our union included, continue to bring plastic sporks to the gunfight, and then are mystified when they lose.
As these union-busters know, the key to persuasion is the simple, primal, emotional pitch. They use fear. We can use money. Leave the complicated facts, figures, and three-syllable words out of it. Nobody is persuaded by those things. People are persuaded through their emotions. It may be sad for us better-educated folks to deal with this, but that's the cold, hard truth.
Although I disagree entirely with Roger Ailes' politics, no one can deny he is a master of messaging, persuasion, and framing. He uses it everyday to build a conservative audience for Fox News. And he doesn't do it by over-estimating the intelligence of the American public. He advises anti-union forces, to very successful effect for them. We had better learn and utilize these techniques for ourselves, or continue to be beat by them.
To be clear, I'm not talking about myself. *I* know about our pension plans.
I'm talking about virtually our entire union membership, which overwhelmingly has no clue about them. They aren't teabaggers, by the way, they're 20- and 30-something artists. As I've written before, virtually none of them have a clue that they're getting ~$5,000 a year from the union, and are utterly ambivalent about their union.
Even more importantly, I'm talking about those who AREN'T yet union, and could be persuaded to join the fight.
Ten years ago, I know the ignorance about the TAG pension plans was rampant. That's why when I became president Steve Hulett and I began inviting every new TAG member to a New Member Lunch (which continue with Steve and Bob Foster and Steve Kaplan), during which we gave a bullet-point description of our pension plans, along with simple printed summaries, complete with some sample calculations. I know people were hearing it and understanding it, because they asked good questions, and were almost always grateful for the discussion.
We also hammered on the same topics here and in the Pegboard, and I know I wrote MANY simple, easy-to-understand descriptions of each part of our pensions for those who weren't new members.
I can tell it was at least partially successful, because in the previous comment thread on this subject some of the exact language Steve and I repeatedly used was repeated almost verbatim. At the same time, one thing I learned again and again during my 9 years as president is that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Some people glaze over when you say 'Defined Benefit Plan.' Some people glaze over when you say 'pension.' Some people glaze over before you get a chance to open your mouth. I remember one union member proudly telling someone that he loved getting the Pegboard, because he used it to line his parakeet cage as soon as he got it in the mail.
Not everyone is so proud of their ignorance, but most are a lot more focused on their work than their union benefits.
And the problem with simple statements like "$5000 of free money every year!" is that it's an approximation that is based on multiple assumptions. That's pretty much an example I used many times, but always within the context of "assuming you work about 50 weeks, 40 hours a week, at one of the upper salary classifications, and you understand that you can't touch the money until you reach retirement age..." It quickly becomes a mouthful, and it's only a part of the story if you're not going to also mention the Defined Benefit Plan, vesting, the 401(k), etc.
In other words, the TAG pension plans are an inherently complex system, and just as you can lose people in trying to explain it all, you can also piss people off by oversimplifying with numbers and situations that don't apply to them.
But I do agree that even though it gets boring for some people to read about this stuff again and again, it DOES bear repeating, and making efforts to make the information more accessible is worth working at.
Kevin,
Thanks for your post. I think the financial benefits of guild membership ( and how to take advantage of them ) can't be overstated. As you point out they're not simple, and it's also true that people aren't always ready to listen.
Please keep posting and responding to posts like this. I have found that I learn a lot more by reading other's answers to questions and having to answer questions at new member lunches.
Thanks.
I have to agree that the message has to be "simplified" for the artists.
I started my blog because of the epiphany I had when I joined TAG. I used to be anti-union.
At the new member lunch I remember being anxious to finally hear what the union offered.
The other artists were rude and were more worried about what was on the menu. Steve H patiently went over what they offered even though he was being cut off all the time.
However, that day when I went with all the mpi health and pension books. I read through it and just thought: "God this is the best thing ever. Why aren't more artist joining TAG?!"
Well now I'm blogging about it and I even post my IAP statement for everyone to see:
http://vfxsoldier.wordpress.com/2010/06/16/to-organize-or-not-to-organize/
We recently have organized a team of members who will be creating videos to use for informative and organizational purposes. We're hammering out details in regular meetings with the interested parties, but a couple of avenues have been agreed upon:
*Interview-type videos akin to Steve's audio Oral History offerings
*Infomative MoGraph videos highlighting important union topics
The first of the second idea was to be a quick piece on the Organization Process. The artist and I, after reading this post, have switched our focus to the Pension Plans. I look forward to posting it for your comments and review.
I have to echo President Emeritus Koch and Steve Hulett's statements. We speak of Pension Plans at any given opportunity. While we deliver the message as succintly as we can, we find at times our audience "check out" when it comes to considering matters of retirement. I can shamefully say I was one of those people before 5 years ago, so I understand the phenomenon.
We look forward to continuing to stress the importance of participation in our 401(k) as well as the extreme benefit of portable, employer-funded pension contributions.
Can someone please tell me where I can find out how much Ive accumulated? Is it at the MPIPHP site?
I'm definitely one of the ignorant in the masses.
It's all in how you PHRASE it.
Point taken.
I think the solution is to simplify, with caveats. And to repeat endlessly until it sinks in.
Can someone please tell me where I can find out how much Ive accumulated? Is it at the MPIPHP site?
Call the Motion Picture Pension folks at (818) 769-0007.
You will want to ask how much you've accumulated in the "Defined Benefit Plan". (That's the big lump sum pot o' money you get at retirement).
You will want to ask how much you've accumulated in the "Defined Benefit Plan". (That's the big lump sum pot o' money you get at retirement).
I think you meant to say "Individual Account Plan," not "Defined Benefit Plan." The IAP is the lump-sum, and the Defined Benefit Plan is the monthly pension.
Doh, that's right. Ask about the "Individual Account Plan."
Better yet, ask about both. That'll give you a more complete view of how much pension you've accumulated.
Me, I'm trying to compute how much a VFX artist like myself would need to earn and save out-of-pocket to match the retirement benefits and options available to an 839 artist.
It's not a pretty sight. I'd need to save a lot each year before I came close to matching the IAP and defined-benefit pension alone.
For example, I max out my Roth IRA every year ($5000/year). However, a union artist not only gets $5000/year on top of his own wages for his IAP, but he also has the option to save an additional $5000/year in his own Roth IRA account.
The mismatch is even greater than you imagine. Since TAG members have a 401(k) available to them, they can far exceed your $5000/yr for a Roth IRA, and can put a whopping $16,500 into that 401(k). That's on top of the approximately $5000 into the IAP and the contributions in the Defined Benefit Plan. So no, you're not going to be able to come close to matching it, except to same tens of thousands of post-tax money each year into investment accounts.
Anon @ 7:11:
Sorry to complicate things, but there's also the regular pension. On top of the roughly "$5000/year" for the IAP (the exact amount does fluctuate a little every year), employers must contribute to our regular pension for every hour worked. So if you work 2000 hours a year, you could get around $60 to $70 added to your pension. Multiply this over 20 years, you would get about $1400 a month (before taxes). You would get this money when you retire and would continue to get this amount every month until you pass away.
This doesn't even count the 401k, which is employee funded and optional. Imagine having a regular pension, an IAP, a 401k, and your own IRA/Roth IRA. Oh yeah, there's also health benefits. I think there's also a fund to reimburse tuition for certain schools if you want to learn certain computer programs.
I can't imagine how much more money you would need to save to match all of these benefits.
Sorry if this makes anyone feel bad or confused, just wanted to illustrate how much TAG can offer compared to non-union studios. I hope VFX artists can organize and have these same benefits.
One more thing, did you know the producers who don't want you to unionize? They say going union would cost too much? They're unionized! I think they belong to the AMPTP, Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers.
Check out their website:
http://www.amptp.org/aboutus.html
The AMPTP, the entertainment industry's official COLLECTIVE BARGAINING representative, negotiates 80 industry-wide collective bargaining agreements on behalf of over 350 motion picture and television producers (member companies include the production entities of the studios, broadcast networks, certain cable networks and independent producers).
They have collective bargaining, the very thing that unions want to have. They have benefits that you want, but they want to deny you of those benefits.
Anon @ 7:57:
You beat me to the punch! Much more concise than my rambling comment. :-)
Maybe my understanding of the IAP is wrong, but I thought that you could either receive a lumps um payout at retirement (depending on how many years you've been in it could be well past 100k) or you can break it down into smaller payments - not sure why anyone would do that though. If you can take the full amount and invest it yourself you might do pretty decent.
Not sire where this paltry $5k a year figure has come from...that would hardly make any sense if you have 100k or better in the account and only live for ten more years
I estimated that I was getting about $6500 a year in my IAP. Remember you get 30.5 cents for every hour you work put into the account.
Regardless, the BIG deal is portability. EVERY FRIGGIN TIME I start at a new facility, I have to wait 6-9 months to get a 401k... and some places only offer it to staff.
If the California VFX facilities go union, you know exactly what you are getting the minute you walk through the door benefits wise.
We need to stop subscribing to fear and start subscribing to intelligence.
Anon @ 6:59:
That $5000ish/year for the IAP comes from the employer. It's a mix of employer contributions for every hour you work, residuals (I think) and investment income. It goes into your account as you continue to work. The more hours and years you work, the bigger your IAP gets. I've heard some people who been in the business for 20-30 years can reach over $100,000.
On top of that is the old fashion pension, where you get a month check throughout your retirement. Right now, I have about 8 years in the union and my regular pension is at about $575/month. This number will increase for every hour that I work. I still have a long way to go from retirement, so I can see that number being 2-2.5 times bigger.
Imagine when you retire, you have over $100,000 in your IAP and then you start to get $1500 (or so) a month for the rest of your life. Also imagine having a 401k valued at $500,000 or more if you invested wisely. Your miles may vary, but these kind of benefits are available to union members. In my opinion, non-union studios would never give you such benefits.
VFX Soldier brings up a good point about portability. If VFX studios go union, your employers immediately contribute to your accounts the second you start working. Every hour worked means more money for your retirement accounts. I was at 3 union employers during 2010, and all three contributed to my union pensions accounts.
The mismatch is even greater than you imagine. Since TAG members have a 401(k) available to them, they can far exceed your $5000/yr for a Roth IRA, and can put a whopping $16,500 into that 401(k). That's on top of the approximately $5000 into the IAP and the contributions in the Defined Benefit Plan. So no, you're not going to be able to come close to matching it, except to same tens of thousands of post-tax money each year into investment accounts.
I figured. By default, a union members who does not think about retirement still "saves" more in his IAP and pension than the VFX artist who tries to sock away equivalent amounts in a Roth IRA, SEP-IRA and taxable account.
A union member who *does* think about retirement and saves additional funds in his 401(k), Roth IRA and taxable accounts will easily leave the non-union VFX artist in the dust.
Er, I meant to write "a union member," not "a union members." Whoops...
Still, I recognize that union artists come out way ahead of VFX artists financially for retirement.
The health benefits, too, also help union artists save for their retirement, if indirectly. I'd love to park the thousands I pay each year for my monthly health insurance premium into a taxable investment account instead.
That $5000ish/year for the IAP comes from the employer. It's a mix of employer contributions for every hour you work, residuals (I think) and investment income.
There's some confusion in this statement. A TAG member's IAP grows via two mechanisms: (1) new contributions when one works at a union studio, and (2) investment income. However, to say that the approximately $5000/year contribution depends on investment income is incorrect.
When a TAG member works at a union studio, the employer contributes 30.5 cents to the IAP for every hour worked, PLUS 6% of the minimum salary for that member's job classification. So a journey animator/TD, whose TAG minimum salary is $1596.64, gets $95.80/week into their IAP, plus the 30.5 cents/hr. If that person works 50 weeks, and gets 2200/hours in a year, that's $5460.92 for the year. And note that the 6% is NOT taken out of your salary. It's a straight employer contribution, and it highlights a good reason to not allow yourself to be under-classified in the work you do, even if you're paid over scale.
The residuals flow first into the health plan. It's only when the health plan is fully funded to a certain level that some of the residuals money flows into the IAP, and I think it's been 6 or 7 years years since that's happened.
So the IAP grows year by year based on my hours worked (new contributions from employer, as outlined above) and from investment income (based on my previous IAP earnings and how the market has done that year), with a rare extra contribution from residuals.
Anon @12:34:
Thanks for the correction. I wasn't sure if residuals played a part in the IAP, that's why I typed "I think."
There's some confusion in this statement. A TAG member's IAP grows via two mechanisms: (1) new contributions when one works at a union studio, and (2) investment income. However, to say that the approximately $5000/year contribution depends on investment income is incorrect.
There's some confusion in YOUR statement as well. Investment income does factor into our IAP. A good portion of my 2009 account balance increase is labeled as investment income.
Newbie question...
From what I'm reading here, the IAP is funded by employer contributions: 6% minimum salary + 30.5 cents for every hour worked.
Does this employer contribution fund the defined benefit plan as well?
Just coming back to this thread. To clarify:
Motion Picture Industry Health Plan contributions:
1) IAP conributions -- 30.5 cents per hour; 6% of union minimum rate.
2) Defined Benefit (Pension) Contribution: $1.2665 per hour worked -- from employer.
TAG 401(k) Plan: Employee contributions (tax deferred) of $16,500/ yr.
$22,000 per year from year an individual turns fifty.
I'll post this up top so more will see it.
Allow me to add: IAP earnings income has averaged 8%-9% over the past twenty years.
There's some confusion in YOUR statement as well. Investment income does factor into our IAP. A good portion of my 2009 account balance increase is labeled as investment income.
You didn't read what I wrote, and you're misunderstanding something. I never said investment income doesn't factor into your IAP. Of course it does. But it is NOT part of the $5000/yr ballpark figure that has been used in this thread repeatedly.
Your own IAP, once it is established, will grow with a combination of investment income (from previous year's contributions into the IAP) and from new employer contributions for that particular year. The investment income additions will happen once you have an IAP, even if you do not work at a union studio.
When someone makes the statement that you get in the ballpark of $4500-$6000/year into your IAP when you work full time at a union studio, they are not talking about investment income. That $4500-6000/yr is from the employer contributions that I cited and Steve H. confirmed (30.5 cents/hr and the equivalent of 6% of your minimum salary per week). It has NOTHING to do with investment income. The investment income is ON TOP OF THAT. It's a separate issue.
My IAP has close to $100 grand in it. In a good investment year, I might have $10 grand in investment income added to my IAP. That's on top of the $5500 I might get from employer contributions. So why not have the union claim that your IAP might get $15000 or more in yearly contributions? Because it's misleading.
I have an entry in my annual IAP statement that reads:
"Investment Income for Current Year Hourly Contributions"
It wasn't a lot, but it was something. It's interest from the money your employer contributed to your account for the current year. It factored in what I got that particular year.
My IAP has close to $100 grand in it. In a good investment year, I might have $10 grand in investment income added to my IAP. That's on top of the $5500 I might get from employer contributions. So why not have the union claim that your IAP might get $15000 or more in yearly contributions? Because it's misleading.
Actually, in your case, it's not misleading. You have worked many more years than a newbie, so your account will grow faster than someone just starting out. People's mileage will vary.
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