Or so it seems.
But I'll be surprised if the studio gets that particular little gold man.
(Adding, if you don't catch the reference, Silence of the Lambs beat Beauty and the Beast for Best Picture two decades ago.)
The thoughts and observations of the leaders of The Animation Guild (TAG), Local 839 IATSE. Jason MacLeod is the Business Representative, KC Johnson is the President. Mike Sauer is Assistant to the Business Representative.
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32 comments:
It's a good film. Certainly, and by far, the best animated feature this year (and most mature).
But best picture it ain't. Gotta go a long way to beat True Grit, Black Swan, and Social Network.
It'll get a nomination BUT only because of the extra long list needing 10 nominations. If it were just 5 films (as it should be) it wouldn't stand a chance of making that list.
Frankly, it's not the best Pixar film or even the best Toy Story film. I have to disagree with the above statement that it's the best animated film or most mature. It's not even Pixar's most mature film (though that bar is REALLY low). It's not even as mature as Shrek4 and has plotholes you could drive a 16 wheeler through.
The honor of Best Animated film belongs to HTTYD.
Yep, the anonymous from 7:53am is a DW employee.
Shrek 4 mature? Really? Shut up DW employee.
Sorry to disappoint your shallow view, but I'm not a DW employee. Just someone giving a realistic assessment.
Pixar's films in general go for a younger audience. Other than The Incredibles their films are simpler and more 'immature' in a lot of ways and recently have been so plothole riddled it amazes me that adult film critics give them such an easy pass.
Many DW films also have plotholes and often aren't successful with what they attempt, but they are clearly striving to reach an older audience.
If you can't accept that simple truth then there's no discussing it with you and the other Pixies.
Honestly, none of this year's animated features deserve a Best Picture nomination. Toy Story 3, How to Train Your Dragon and Tangled were cute films, but they lacked true depth and artistry. Even The Illusionist which was used elements of realism still lacked that extra "something" that just gives an animated film that push.
None of the animated films in 2010 have captivated me in a sense that they were mature, creative, or inventive. They just felt recycled, as if I have watched these films a hundred times before.
I applaud Disney at their pathetic attempt to make "history", same with DreamWorks. The truth is the Oscars are all politics and we should just accept the fact that no animated film will win Best Picture.
They should focus more on making outstanding films then rehashing the same thing over and over just so they can win a nomination or some cheesy award. Who cares about what an "honor" it is to win an Oscar, who give a crap about a man on a statue. Just make good films!
"Pixar's films in general go for a younger audience."
HAH! You could say that about maybe 2 of their films. The rest are more mature than most live action films. meant for serious consideration.
DW, however, caters to small children. No matter that their first 6 films tried not to, and flopped. So they focused on children's films.
"Honestly, none of this year's animated features deserve a Best Picture nomination."
To be honest, none of the live action films should either. Can we just skip the Oscars this year?
"To be honest, none of the live action films should either. Can we just skip the Oscars this year?"
Agreed.
and recently have been so plothole riddled it amazes me that adult film critics give them such an easy pass.
You have a lot to learn about audiences and film making in general. Audiences dont go to movies so they can be entertained by a water-tight plot. They want to feel. They want a cathartic reaction to developed, interesting characters.
Theres a certain group of anal-retentive assholes (ahem, you) who like to pick plots apart to try and make themselves feel smart.
I agree that How To Train Your Dragon is more worthy of the animated oscar this year, but to say "None of the animated films in 2010 have captivated me in a sense that they were mature, creative, or inventive" is subjective, flame-bait, and ignorant.
Ahem...anonymous...you're assuming all the anonymous posts are from the same person. I said the remark about plotholes, but not the remark about none of the animated films 'captivating me'.
And, yes, I expect critics to be as harsh on plotholes that exist in Pixar films as they are with live-action films. Frankly, Pixar has less of an excuse for plotholes to exist than in live-action since it takes them so long to work out the stories - the same goes for DW and any other animated film.
Plotholes destroy the good 'feeling' that the audience has when watching a film and hurts return viewings. Unless it's a Pixar film, of course. they seem to be able to convince naive audiences that plotholes don't matter (ahem,you)
Name one movie without a plot hole.
By the way, film structure and plot hols are two different things. If the structure works, you can have plot holes. But if the structure doesnt work, no amount of water-tightness in the plot will help.
Sorry if I confused you with the other 18 Anonymous. Ill change my name to help keep it straight.
I call this meeting of Monday Morning Film Makers to order!
Anonymousness posters, please tell us how you could have made a better film than Pixar, Disney, Dream Works or any other gawd damn studio out there. Please educate us so that we will go forth and foul theaters no more.
Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller?
(insert cricket sound effect here)
"None of the animated films in 2010 have captivated me in a sense that they were mature, creative, or inventive. They just felt recycled, as if I have watched these films a hundred times before."
I actually agree to a point, I thought Tangled was fun, but was too formulaic. Toy Story 3 relied too much on the sentimental. How to Train Your Dragon was well done, but the plot felt clichéd.
But they to say none of them captivate is surely a matter of opinion. Sure they weren't artistically different or unique, but they were still good. You could say Tangled was inventive, especially since the technology to animate the film was created by Disney. Again it's a matter of opinion.
Now it's not that I found them not creative, just a little redundant. The animation is wonderful, it's the story that doesn't captivate. Yes, Rapunzel's hair in Tangled is an achievement in itself, but that doesn't excuse its "formulaic" story.
I want a film that had general audiences truly in mind. Something that is quite thought-provoking a mixture of realistic themes and the endless possibilities that animation can create.
Toy Story 3 and The Illusionist did a fine job with this, but it just didn't quite make it there. I can't fully explain but it's how I feel. It's my opinion, you can argue with it as much as you want, but it most likely won't change.
"Anonymousness posters, please tell us how you could have made a better film than Pixar, Disney, Dream Works or any other gawd damn studio out there. Please educate us so that we will go forth and foul theaters no more."
For starters, treat every single damn scene in the movie as if it were the most important.
Never use animation shortcuts, especially if it risks the fluidity of the animation.
Make sure that each and every character experience some form of character development. In other words, too many characters is never a good idea.
Mature storylines, I don't buy that utter B.S. that animated films are for kids. Do storylines that reflect certain events in life.
Unique characters. I'm tired of all the cookie-cutter characters used in animated films these days. None I can recall had something extremely unique to them.
Pushing the limits, try different styles that makes this certain film stand out from the rest. Do something out there, that someone wouldn't have thought of for a million years. In other words, be damn creative.
Stop using literary sources as a crutch. Don't get me wrong love, Disney has been doing this since the very beginning, but it doesn't hurt to do more original stories.
That's it, and I hope that you're not an animator.
No offense to posters, but this guy really grated on my last nerve.
"No offense to posters, but this guy really grated on my last nerve."
Whoa, remind me to never run into you in a dark alley.
Sounds like you had a bad day. I hope that post released some frustration for you. I actually like some of your suggestions, certainly this one:
For starters, treat every single damn scene in the movie as if it were the most important.
I love it when a studio puts all its heart and soul into a movie, and treat every scene and every single detail as if it were the most important thing ever.
The problem is not many studios do this. The only one off the top of my head is Studio Ghibli, and that's because they only have two directors who direct every film.
Other points I like:
Mature storylines, I don't buy that utter B.S. that animated films are for kids. Do storylines that reflect certain events in life.
Unique characters. I'm tired of all the cookie-cutter characters used in animated films these days. None I can recall had something extremely unique to them.
Pushing the limits, try different styles that makes this certain film stand out from the rest. Do something out there, that someone wouldn't have thought of for a million years. In other words, be damn creative.
Sounds like you had these thoughts for awhile.
I wonder what Floyd or Steve would say to these points? Probably not much.
Story construction is hard, execution is never as silky smooth as it sometimes appears on screen.
If it were otherwise, there would be more features grabbing us by the collars and not letting go.
Sheesh, this is a very angry crowd.
Do I think TS3 deserves best picture? No. I liked Dragon much more.
Would I be shocked if TS3 got a nomination over Dragon? Of course not, cos I know a lot of people that think it's the best movie ever. I personally think it was for nostalgic reasons, but it doesn't matter the reasoning. If the audience likes the movie, then the audience likes the movie.
And Mr. Anonymous poster with your rant on how to make a good movie,
They were all good movies. Would it be nice to see something 100% original? Of course! That freaking blow my mind, and we'd all lose total control of our bowels out of the excitement of seeing something that doesn't refer to anything else in the history of ever. So please, give us a call when you accomplish that. The rest of us will stick to attempting to make movies entertaining, even if it is based off of another story, because its the freaking ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY!
"For starters, treat every single damn scene in the movie as if it were the most important."
Not every scene should be treated as if it were the most important. Sure sign of an amateur.
Never use animation shortcuts, especially if it risks the fluidity of the animation.
No one cares about the fluidity of the animation. No one. Character matters most. And communication to the audience. Richard Williams' and Don Bluth's fatal flaw.
Make sure that each and every character experience some form of character development. In other words, too many characters is never a good idea.
Again, not necessary. Every character should WANT something--that drives them. But they don't have to change. And it's distracting from the main character.
Mature storylines, I don't buy that utter B.S. that animated films are for kids. Do storylines that reflect certain events in life.
Profound. Did you scribble that in the edges of your junior high notebook?
Unique characters. I'm tired of all the cookie-cutter characters used in animated films these days. None I can recall had something extremely unique to them.
You have NO idea how to do this, do you?
Pushing the limits, try different styles that makes this certain film stand out from the rest. Do something out there, that someone wouldn't have thought of for a million years. In other words, be damn creative.
Form follows content. Don't wank off on design for the sake of being different.
Stop using literary sources as a crutch. Don't get me wrong love, Disney has been doing this since the very beginning, but it doesn't hurt to do more original stories.
Again, you have no idea how difficult this is. Pixar creates it's own original stories, but even they point out how difficult this is. Literary sources aren't necessarily a "crutch," unless you've seen the Harry Potter movies (2 crutches, even--awful stuff, the movies are).
That's it, and I hope that you're not an animator.
As it's obvious you are not an animator.
No offense to posters, but this guy really grated on my last nerve.
Your LAST nerve?
Wow this is an angry thread. I didn't know that the animation industry was this angry. Hell I knew the fans can get a little out of hand but not like this.
LOL! It's all fun and fantasy here in Animation Land!
And how much you wanna bet it's not that well meaning, but ignorant fellow's last nerve?
Okay, ignoring all the angry rants for now. I found Toy Story an excellent film, sure it has some flaws, but who cares! As long as you can get lost in the film. Sure it will get a nomination, but I think the award will got The Social Network. (didn't like it but critics were raving)
"Hell I knew the fans can get a little out of hand but not like this."
Welcome to the internet. Sometimes its fun to watch them go at it, but a little tiresome. Even the Pixies are not as fun as they used to be.
*Excuse the grammar & spelling issues.
Thanks "Anonymous December 29, 2010 1:05:00 PM" you took the words right out of my mouth.
Plus I didnt have the patience to spell it all out for the guy
"If you can't accept that simple truth then there's no discussing it with you and the other Pixies. "
Just as there is no way of rationally discussing an opposing view with you and the other Dreamwankers.
All of you trolls (Pixies and Dreamwankers) just go away. You're all irritating.
Number one, making a feature film is damn hard work. Try it sometime. Clearly, people who are the most critical have never done it.
I began my career at Disney in the fifties. The one thing that's kept me going is not taking this goofy business seriously. We're cartoon makers, not brain surgeons. We entertain audiences. (sometimes)
Finally, it's not your film. You work for a corporation. It's their film. They simply let you work on it until they dump you. Welcome to the real world.
" Clearly, people who are the most critical have never done it."
B.S. People who are most self critical about their work go furthest in this business.
"Finally, it's not your film. You work for a corporation. It's their film. They simply let you work on it until they dump you. Welcome to the real world."
Ding-ding-ding! You hit the nail right on the head. And thus the magic of the animation industry has been revealed...
On a more serious note, why all the negative posts? I haven't been on for awhile, but since when did all these debates become so baneful. I mean the Lasseter v. Katzenberg debate was one thing now fans are trying to tell animators how to do their jobs!
I know we want good quality films, but these guys are just doing their jobs. Like Floyd said, it's not their movie it's the corporation's. If you think you can make such a great film so easily than why not start your own studio.
"No one cares about the fluidity of the animation. No one. Character matters most. And communication to the audience. Richard Williams' and Don Bluth's fatal flaw."
I tend to agree with this since only animation snobs, no offense, and critics only care if its "fluid", not the audience.
Anyway back on topic, I second that The Social Network will win the Oscar, but Toy Story 3 will get its nom and then win Best Animated Feature.
"B.S. People who are most self critical about their work go furthest in this business."
Really? Clearly you and I have worked at different studios. In my experience, those were definitely NOT the guys who ended up successful.
Then again, I guess it depends on what you consider success.
B.S. People who are most self critical about their work go furthest in this business.
That's almost never true, I know cause I am one of those people. Just do your best and if the guys upstairs are happy with it then good. Well, maybe it's not that black and white.
I've worked on some very bad films in my 25+ years in animation but not once did I ever hear the director say, "Wow, let's try as hard as we can to make this the worst film ever shall we?". To the contrary, they all set out to make a good film but somehow got the recipe wrong. Even so, what have they done that most of the posters on this blog have not? THEY MADE A FILM.
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