A member e-mailed me the following this morning:
I recently purchased a Cintiq, and really enjoy using it. My concern is, now that everyone is switching over to digital drawing, I think that the studios have unrealistic expectations as to the time savings. Studio X has cut a week off the storyboard schedules. ... Even though we're working on computers now, it still takes time to make the drawings, and the computer is just a different tool. I would like to see if other union members agree with me, or if they have found that using a computer really does speed up the process.
I've talked to a number of board artists who've jumped to Cintiqs, and almost all of them like it. They enjoy the fact they don't have to redraw everything or endlessly cut, paste and Xerox; they like the storage capabilities. But many get frustrated with new demands that they turn out more material at a faster pace when there is still a hell of a lot of drawing to do, drawing that still takes a hell of a lot of skill, concentration and time.
Thoughts?
Posts
42 comments:
Since we now have Cintiqs with Toon Boom Storyboard Pro, we're also expected to cut the audio up and time the footage so that a finished animatic can be exported.
More work that also eliminates animatics editors and timing directors.
It's seems in my experience that the schedules for boards are shorter regardless of whether they are done on Cintiq or not. and they want the boards fully posed out to boot. the Cintiq does make the process a little easier but not enough to shave weeks off the schedule.
If they want to save time and money the studios should avoid re writing the script while the board artists are boarding.
And Board artists should stop working 60-80 hours for 40 hours worth of pay to get the boards done on the shorter schedule. If everyone did this then they might realize that there crazy schedules are unrealistic.
A Cintiq doesn't speed up the thought process. It does allow for a better visual presentation. The expectation now is that a pitch is almost animated. I find I'm doing a lot more drawings then I did back in the paper days.
I've been working on a Cintiq for 3 years now.
It is a tool. A very good tool.
It does not speed up the creative process of plotting out a storyboard or layout . It still takes the same number of "pen" strokes to lay down the lines for a drawing as it did on paper.
The Cintiq tablet does not make anyone "draw faster" or "draw better" .
The Cintiq does not do the drawings for you at the push of a button. (you'd be surprised how many people seem to think that . "Oh, you're boarding this half-hour show with a Cintiq in Flash . So , you can have that done by this afternoon right ?" Still a lot of magical thinking among people who ought to know better)
It does save time in not having to mess with a photocopier or a scanner. Files can be quickly zipped and uploaded to the client's ftp server.
Revisions can sometimes be faster if it is simply a matter of resizing or repositioning a character.
However, as someone pointed out there is now the added burden of the storyboard artist being expected to turn in a polished animatic with camera moves and sound . Those added expectations eat up the time saved by not having to scan drawings ,etc. Not to mention that board artists are now replacing layout in many cases. They want very tight boards which can be used as layouts. This is making a storyboard artist do at least two jobs , but only getting paid one paycheck.
It definitely speeds up the original process but you are asked and expected to do way more. Including being the animatic editor of your section.
Question - which size of Cintiq is in use at most of the studios? The handheld 12" model, the 20" model, or a mix of both in each studio?
I just got my 15' Axiotron Modbook, which is pretty much a Cintiq Laptop (it's a Wacom LCD screen you draw on merged with a 15' macbook). Very handy for when your creative team is brainstorming offsite or if you get inspired in some random place that does not have a nice 20in Cintiq and computer at hand.
Only downsides are it's lack of keyboard and the fact that the screen is a little dimmer when running on battery.
It gives me the freedom to be enslaved somewhere other than the studio cube. If I can get it to slow down the fabric of time and space in the modern working world, i'd be a very happy man.
>we're also expected to cut the audio up and time the footage so that a finished animatic can be exported.
> Including being the animatic editor of your section.
In both of these cases, you are doing AT THE VERY LEAST the work of a director or AD, and should be paid and credited accordingly. The studio that is requiring this as part of the storyboard job description is taking advantage of you and needs to be called to the carpet for allowing this to happen. It is wrong and you are getting taken for a ride. Your supervisor and their supervisor should be fired. Fox prime time shows are particularly vulnerable to this as they are all squeezing down art schedules to slave labor levels, and Nickelodeon is also heavily reliant on creating high-quality 'animatics' b/c their executives cannot commit to storyboards and need to be spoon-fed every frame like it was a goddamn Picasso. You are directing. Demand the ladies upstairs pay you accordingly.
I am living proof that if you don't work 80 hour weeks you will get blacklisted. I tried to stand up for myself and now no one will hire me. So as everyone switches to Cintiqs the deadlines will get even more horrible and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
I've been using the Cintiq Tablet for storyboards and I've found it to be a very effective tool, saving me both time and money.
However, I'm doing it for my benefit - not for the benefit of some studio and helping them improve their bottom line.
>and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
yes there is. you work 80, you get paid 80. steve?
You should not be working unpaid overtime at a union shop. Your screwing yourself and everyone else.
"Oh, you're boarding this half-hour show with a Cintiq in Flash . So , you can have that done by this afternoon right ?" Still a lot of magical thinking among people who ought to know better)
...
Can someone tell me how someone like this is working in animation?
I'm seriously asking, here.
To the person asquing about Studio X:
I'd say work as usual, then when the storyboarding period comes to an end, let them know you need another week. If they refuse to extend the deadline, walk off and let them do the rest of the storyboards themselves, but remember to not leave before getting paid in full.
Contientous objector.
Interesting.
What about animators animating with the cintiqs? What's their experience so far?. And what software is recomended for animating?
God
""Oh, you're boarding this half-hour show with a Cintiq in Flash . So , you can have that done by this afternoon right ?" Still a lot of magical thinking among people who ought to know better) "
...
David wrote:
"Can someone tell me how someone like this is working in animation?
I'm seriously asking, here."
@David- Unfortunately that describes many network execs and producers working with animation (I won't say working "in" animation, because they barely understand the process ) . Not all execs or producers are that clueless , but there are enough of them around who are so aloof and disconnected from the actual production process that they act as if they believe computers magically make the art. This is the person who orders everything to be done in Flash ,even though they have no idea what Flash really is or how it works , but they've read (or heard , most of them don't read much) that "Flash animation" makes everything faster, cheaper, better . This happens because they've never worked their way up the ladder by actually working in animation . The best producers are the ones who came up through the ranks and have a passing familiarity with what each department in an animation studio does.
"And what software is recomended for animating?"
------
TVP Animation has a great set of digital drawing and painting tools. It's bitmap, not vector, so the pencil tools feel more like 'real' pencils . Works great for storyboarding , layout, and painting BG's as well.
A recent article in Variety reports that Cartoon Saloon ("The Secret of Kells") is using TVP to paperlessly animate their next feature film "The Song of the Sea" . --
>>>.
"The Cartoon Saloon team is using Cintiq tablets and the French software TV Paint on its next production, the 2D "Song of the Sea." "I am very happy with how close to paper and pencil we can make our animation," says Moore, who will again collaborate with artists in several countries. "It's a very efficient way for small studios with limited budgets to create full hand-drawn animation in a multisite way."
>>>>
.
@sad but true:
I just don't understand. I always imagined that in animation production, everyone involved were... I don't know... ANIMATORS!! Or knew how the production system worked, or at least knew to draw. How is it that these individuals who have no clue what flash animation is, or have this strange belief that "computers will do all the work" end up being in charge of people who DO know what they're doing?
WHO HIRES THESE PEOPLE???
mmmmmmm, NO.
In my experience, project managers have never EVER, opended up a Maya file, or a Softimage file or whatever. And of course, they have no clue how heavy some characters are. In case of storyboarding, I can imagine the same thing happening....
god
Hey, guy who signs his posts as "god": what's the point of your moniker?
It's not particularly funny or clever(or pointed)...but you sure seem devoted to it. Why.
To be faster @ Cintiq + Program..
You need a separate monitor to view your model sheets/funpack/files (hooked up on the same harddrive)
then, your working platform would be the Cintiq of course.. cool!
You need that computer to be super fast , and load it with essential progs...(juice)
Toon Boom SB Pro (the latest edition) is the fastest and most efficient for boarding!
Alias and Pshop CS45678 do good drawings--you can combine.. depends on the purpose.
You also need to be hooked up with the Net AT ALL TIMES (very important)..
Everything is slow in the beginning but, soon you'd comfortable with the Prog and cintiq!
It won't be too long!! think positive...
Man, you won't miss paper at all!! I never looked back ever since. Never had a papercut for 5 years, bwahahaha!!!!
The slowest to ever come your way would be-------- you guessed it-- the PAYCHECK!!!! Grrr!!!#$@%..... may help to do a video log of your progress but, that's optional...
I adopted it after a very good discussion here about all things religious. Im on the atheist side, if you care to know.
Im not gonna apologize to you if you don't find it funny or pointed or whatever. I don't seek your aproval either,so you can shove it!
GOD
I adopted it after a very good discussion here about all things religious. Im on the atheist side, if you care to know.
Im not gonna apologize to you if you don't find it funny or pointed or whatever. I don't seek your aproval either,so you can shove it!
-GOD
Thanks. That was about what I figured.
yeah I've worked on boards using cintiqs. I did the amount of work I could without going in to overtime (since I wasn't going to be compensated for it). I quickly gained a reputation for being "slow" as just about everyone else was working on their boards at home or coming in on weekends. I compromised by eating lunch at my desk to continue working and coming in an hour early and a hour late, but it still wasn't enough to keep up with the demands.
This was also a show where the board artists where writing their own scripts (which wasn't bad, we had better stories than the 'official' scripts) but we received no writing credit. we were responsible for timing, layouts and doing the bulk of design work on top of 3 week deadlines.
still only one paycheck.
since then I've simply purchased my own cintiq and toon boom software and endeavored to put that effort towards my own projects. far more satisfying.
I apologize to digress, but I really despise Toon Boom Storyboard Pro.
I like working on the computer and cintiq, but Toon Boom is clunky, slow, ill-performing software. It's vectorized with few of the benefits of being vector and all of the disadvantages of being awkward to draw with.
For a specialized, high-cost program, it's a rip. I wish there was a competitor.
What a pitiful industry we work in.
to anon February 27, 2010 2:18:00 PM
so sorry. the company you were working for was taking all of you for a very big ride. yes, what a sad, pitiful industry we work in.
Anyone who does timing, etc. on storyboards when they're hired as a storyboard artist is screwing it up for EVERYONE.
Don't drink the koolaid, kids. Know what your job description is and STICK TO IT.
As for using the cintiq...it's 50/50 for me. It eliminates the need of using the xerox machine, but then that also eliminates the need to step away from your desk, which frankly can be a good thing to stretch the legs, get the brain moving in a different direction than the immediate work sitting in your face.
It's just a tool...it shouldn't be used as an excuse for anyone to be a tool and make the artists work harder, faster, and cheaper when we're already getting screwed without the benefit of a kiss or dinner.
It is a pitiful industry where you get no recognition for doing three jobs and are only paid for one.
Only someone who has had a cushy job for way longer than they deserve would say something cruel like that.
"Anyone who does timing, etc. on storyboards when they're hired as a storyboard artist is screwing it up for EVERYONE."
I would imagine some of those people were hired knowing that they'd be doing timing too. Not all, but a good portion knew what they were in for.
"Anyone who does timing, etc. on storyboards when they're hired as a storyboard artist is screwing it up for EVERYONE."
I would imagine some of those people were hired knowing that they'd be doing timing too. Not all, but a good portion knew what they were in for.
Uhm, a storyboard artist generally does not do timing on their own boards. If they do, they're doing two jobs, and should be paid accordingly. You get the concept, right?
Don't do work for free. End of story(haha).
ANYONE having trouble using Toon Boom Storyboard Pro Software can just go back to kiddie programs like Microsoft Paint!!
"Uhm, a storyboard artist generally does not do timing on their own boards. If they do, they're doing two jobs, and should be paid accordingly. You get the concept, right?"
I don't agree.
As an example. Let's say you have a TD that can do lighting, or modeling, or even can comps. Now, since he can do more than one job, should he get paid more than a guy that is just doing lighting? Not necessarily so. As long as their time is being paid for appropriately.
He should be compensated for his time by whatever the market currently bears
Just do the job and stop worrying about whether you are doing boarding AND timing. It aint the end of the world.
As an example. Let's say you have a TD that can do lighting, or modeling, or even can comps. Now, since he can do more than one job, should he get paid more than a guy that is just doing lighting? Not necessarily so. As long as their time is being paid for appropriately.
He should be compensated for his time by whatever the market currently bears
Just do the job and stop worrying about whether you are doing boarding AND timing. It aint the end of the world.
It's not the end of the world, but it's the end of a standard of living that's rapidly disappearing thanks to the above attitude. YOU may find not having a life outside of your job to be pleasurable...most artists don't.
Funny thing...I'm betting the top 1% richest people charge for their time accordingly, yet you think the rest of us shouldn't. Why is that?
Don't complain because you do two jobs for the price of one?!??! Are you KIDDING me? You must still live with mommy.
I still dont get it. If you are getting paid $500 a day for 8 hours of work. And you spend 6 hours doing boarding and 2 hours doing timing.. who gives a fuck?
I just don't get your point.
I also dont see how this has anything to do with life outside of work.
I still dont get it. If you are getting paid $500 a day for 8 hours of work. And you spend 6 hours doing boarding and 2 hours doing timing.. who gives a fuck?
I just don't get your point.
I also dont see how this has anything to do with life outside of work.
What dream world are you visiting from?
My point is that no studio currently schedules their productions for the artists they hire to do their jobs within a reasonable time frame, much less two jobs under the same aforementioned crazy schedule.
Who gives a fuck? Those of us who have been in the industry for more than a hot minute and are tired of idiots trying to justify their inability to plan productions out reasonably who are screwing it up for those of us who actually care about what we do and under what circumstances we do it in.
So, 'fess up. You must be either a very new-to-the-industry artist who hasn't hit the wall of reality yet, a production manager who doesn't know a damned thing about animation, or a troll who still lives with mommy.
Sounds like your problem is not that you are doing timing AND boards.. Your beef is with the studio and the managers. Two totally different issues.
"So, 'fess up. You must be either a very new-to-the-industry artist who hasn't hit the wall of reality yet, a production manager who doesn't know a damned thing about animation, or a troll who still lives with mommy."
None of the above. I just don't work at a studio that has these demands you speak of.
Like I said, your problem is not the job. It is the managers.
Sounds like your problem is not that you are doing timing AND boards.. Your beef is with the studio and the managers. Two totally different issues.
The problem is when a studio expects an artist to do two simultaneous jobs for the price and schedule of one. You can nitpick and say it's the managers, but that makes it a problem for the artists if they buy that line of bullshit. If I'm hired to do boards, I'm going to be rightly pissed off if I'm expected to pose the fuck out of the board until it's animated, or if I have to time my board. That's not in my job description. I'm not being monetarily compensated for it. Therefore I shouldn't do it. Giving work away for free is a faulty and unsuccessful business model.
You can claim it's not happening where you're at, but it happens. And it shouldn't. End of story.
Okay, so you're hang up is that you don't want to do anything but draw boards. Because the assumption is that all studios and all managers are going to cause you 15 hour days and weekends cause you have to now do timing too.
I get that.
It just seemed from your posts that you were simply against doing timing for the fact that it isn't just boarding. Meaning, you didn't want to do anything but stay in your single-track mindset.
Mork calling steve hulett, come in steve hulett...
nothing
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