It's always good to see a former animator do well.
"Alice in Wonderland" on Thursday will become the sixth movie to cross $1 billion in worldwide boxoffice and the first spring release to do so. ...
The industry's previous five $1 billion pics -- "Avatar," "Titanic," "The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King," "Dead Man's Chest" and "The Dark Knight" -- unspooled during the holiday or summer boxoffice seasons. ...
There have been other animation artists who have made it as live-action directors. None, however, have had the success of Mr. Burton.
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38 comments:
say what you will about how good the movie is. i wish a congratulations to those involved in the making of this film.
None, however, have had the success of Mr. Burton.
"Success" = "Zombified cult following of religious proportions, still hoping he'll remake that one cool film from ten years ago, even though he really hasn't lately"--Of which the same could be said of Kevin Smith or Quentin Tarantino.
Success is not always earned. :(
Proving once again that luck has more to do with success than real talent and that phony mantra of Pixar's that "story" is king is a lot of BS as well.
Wait, wait someone is doing well - let me go piss all over their success so I can feel better about myself. Thank you 839 blog for being the sturdy pine that allows so many whiny bitches to lift their leg upon you and drain their venom.
To all the bitchers and moaners and guffawers and armchair movie and director and personal critics: If you think THEIR work isnt good enough for you, lets see what YOU can do. Didn't think so.
That movie truly was terrible. Badly written, acted, and TERRIBLY designed. What ever happened to good looking movies? Just awful.
BTW, asides from his short films at CalArts, Tim Burton has never animated. He inbetweened at Disney, and never got beyond that and some [sadly] unused design work. "Former animator" indeed.
"To all the bitchers and moaners and guffawers and armchair movie and director and personal critics: If you think THEIR work isnt good enough for you, lets see what YOU can do. Didn't think so"
Hey doofus, if you'll note the 'bitch' mentioned that it was all about having LUCK! And in Burton's case being able to date the head of Development's asistant to help get 'noticed'.
How do you know that if given the opportunity to direct some of these 'bitchers' couldn't do as well or better than Burton?
Wow. Just...wow.
I'm delighted that somebody is getting rich.
However, the only lesson this teaches me is, if you hope to get rich, you'd best get out of the animation business.
Couldn't help but add $.02. Thought the movie was great and daring at the same time. The epic feel of the story line paired with the make believe feel of absolutely everything else was genius and risky. Glad the world wide public responded. It restored my hope in humanity.
In case it wasn't too obvious, but Burton is not beloved amongst most animators...for many reasons and not just for the way he inflated his early resume.
it's called getting ahead. try it sometime.
"In case it wasn't too obvious, but Burton is not beloved amongst most animators..."
I read this blog daily, it's like having a bum tooth that no matter what you do to stop yourself you can't keep your tongue from exploring it.
The theme is often one of, "They are successful therefore I hate them and their work and they are but lucky talentless hack bastards who probably slept their way to the top!"
"Oh, those grapes are probably too sour anyway", said the Fox.
The great unwashed ignorant masses seem to like Burton's work, and while that does not make him a genius it sure as Hell makes him into a viable product, (last time I checked animation was a commercial art) and that product has kept more than a few of us in clover over the years.
So, why the hate?
Why the venom?
Why not listen to your mother and say nothing if you have nothing nice to say?
Better yet, when offered a spot on a Burton project (or Cameron or whomever else gets your bile flowing) and put your values in front of your well being and just say, "No".
That'll show 'em.
If enough of you professional animators turn 'em down they'll have to change their style to one that suits your specific tastes or retire and spend their days lounging on the sacks of undeserved millions they have squirreled away.
Oh wait, what's that over there?
It appears to be a line of hungry Animation Mentor graduates that would feel as if they'd won the f'ing lottery to get a damn Kit-Kat commercial gig much less a spot on a Burton feature.
And guess what, while a lot of them are not worth their weight in pencil shavings there are some very skilled artists in there just waiting - waiting for a shot, any shot, that they can shine up bright and pretty enough to throw your work into the shadows.
Well, best you let them take those spots, after all you have your principles to uphold.
Bummer. That really brought me down. And, just when I was starting to enjoy all the pissing and moaning.
So, why the hate?
Why the venom?
Well, leaving aside that my particular hate/venom at the time was directed at Linda Woolverton... ;)
Have you ever driven on a long, LONG car trip with someone who keeps singing the same annoying overexposed novelty hit song he heard on the radio, and keeps singing it, even though you asked him several times not to?--Not to deliberately annoy, but just because he thought he was being wacky, iconoclastic and clever EVERY SINGLE TIME?
That's the exact feeling of watching Tim direct the same movie over and over, and picture that he genuinely believes the audience is full of blue-haired old ladies who are reaching for the smelling salts at his "shocking" wacky-goth gags.
Creativity starts becoming an issue of maturity, and maturity means self-discipline:
Yes, as 7:41 pointed out, Tim has never animated in his life--Although we have plenty of good Henry Selick films to show for it. Tim's only animation background was washing out as a Disney animator, because--surprise--he couldn't quite tear himself away from himself long enough to work on the project at hand.
(But again, not all my own hate/venom is directed solely at Mr. B--
At least some of us know that the project started out as a version of that "dark" CD-Rom game ten years ago, can direct our venom towards unimaginative studio boardroom heads that fall back on the drug of handing Tim projects hoping he'll "magically" turn them visually stylized after they run out of their ideas of how, and can groan at Disney's attempt to paste corporate name-brand loyalty onto the movie, in case we all forgot.)
When the public tires of Mr. Burton's vision they'll stop going to see his films.
Clearly, their appetite for curly Q's and black and white striped what-nots has yet to be sated.
Yes, and I am sure those stock holders would be pleased to hear that Disney turned their back on hit and revenue generating film because a relative few are peeved that Mr. Burton stuck true to his style.
As to your comment about riding in a car with someone who plays the same song over and over again, the answer is simple, get out of the damn car.
Don't like Burton's films - vote with your wallet.
Remember, Hollywood is a dumb shark that eats money, if Burton's films consistently flop that shark will move onto other waters.
."for many reasons and not just for the way he inflated his early resume...
Anonymous said...
it's called getting ahead. try it sometime."
Doesn't work for Floyd Norman.
When the public tires of Mr. Burton's vision they'll stop going to see his films.
Clearly, their appetite for curly Q's and black and white striped what-nots has yet to be sated.
Don't like Burton's films - vote with your wallet.
Well, that's just it, as the second post pointed out:
The public DID tire of curly-Q's, sculpted topiaries and Johnny Depp, Evil Clown, but, like a crooked district, their votes weren't counted.
The opening was rather conveniently chosen to hit during college spring break week, to maximize the amount of college kids who'd already imagined their own movie in their heads on name value months before seeing the trailer, went to see the movie as religious pilgrimage, and convinced themselves that they'd seen a classic rather than say otherwise.
If you've ever talked with a loyal Tim fanboy who would defend "Charlie & the Chocolate Factory" to the death, you'll know how Hell Is the Impossibility of Reason. :(
Of course, regular folk did go see it too, on Disney's enthusiastic mega-promotion that we were getting "an all-new version of the real story", and that we, as brand-loyal fans, somehow owed it as our "duty" to Kathryn Beaumont...But with a healthy nudge-nudge in the ribs about which studio brought you Nightmare Before Christmas, and knowing WHOSE particular ribs to nudge.
I'm sure studio execs would love to crow over how "everybody" flocked to the movie like hotcakes, but in the words of the immortal bumper-sticker, Don't Blame Me, I Voted For HTTYD. :)
You keep defending Burton because 'it's what the public wants', but actually out of 14 films only half have been real hits and the ones that weren't many were serious bombs.
But because studios think he's still got another Batman in him (and Alice has proven that studio head right finally) they keep giving him lucrative deals.
But the big 'bitch' that you can't seem to get over is that he was extremley lucky and not many are given the same lucky opportunities he's been given.
if anything it's important for everyon in the industry to recognize that talent only has a little to do with success. It's mostly luck.
"The opening was rather conveniently chosen to hit during college spring break week, to maximize the amount of college kids"
Those dirty bastards - why, look what they did - they made a SOUND BUSINESS DECISION TO MAXIMIZE THEIR PROFITS! I swear - you'd think they were in this business to make money and not for the art!
Pardon me while I recline to my couch, I am getting the vapors...I'm a sensitive artist you know...all this talk of other people's money is taxing....
"Not many are given the same lucky opportunities he's been given"
"I believe in luck: how else can you explain the success of those you dislike?" ~Jean Cocteau
I actually believe what success I've had is mostly due to luck. being in the right place at the right time. I don't just reserve benefitting from 'luck' for my enemies.
Burton has just had an inordinant amount of luck.
""I'm sure studio execs would love to crow over how "everybody" flocked to the movie like hotcakes, but in the words of the immortal bumper-sticker, Don't Blame Me, I Voted For HTTYD. :)""
You make the general public sound like a flock of zombies that have absolutely no will power or choice of their own. there is no clever or dubious planning going on here. If people are interested in seeing something they'll see it. Enough said.
Luck always plays into the role of success. However if you work hard and play your cards right, you control every aspect of your career. If you really want something you need to be willing to bend over and do whatever it takes to get there. You can't just sit back and peeve over someone else's success just because they're further ahead then you are and you don't agree with their work.
Unless you're willing to do WHATEVER it takes to move up, you will always take a back seat to those around you. If you're not willing to go that far, then you should be happy where you are. Being yourself, and never compromising yourself.
"Luck is when opportunity meets preparation". --Robert Evans
"Be what you is and not what you is not! Folks that is what they is, is the happiest lot!"
Mr. Lizard the Wizard
You make the general public sound like a flock of zombies that have absolutely no will power or choice of their own. there is no clever or dubious planning going on here. If people are interested in seeing something they'll see it. Enough said.
No, but Lincoln did say that you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time...
Disney, in its two-pronged marketing attack, did both. :)
But because studios think he's still got another Batman in him
they keep giving him lucrative deals.
Think you were trying to mean that as a good thing, but that's crystallized the problem in a nutshell:
It's no longer about whether WE want him to make movies; studios simply hand him big-design franchise projects that they literally don't know what to do with...They have no idea what they want it to look like, but Tim made Batman, and a couple of other Weird Looking films, and whatever he did to Batman, it made a boatload of money for a franchise.
If IMDb serves, Tim hasn't done one of his OWN independently generated projects for the last nine titles--Even Alice started out as a completely different movie that had been bounced around to four other directors before finding its way to Disney (who, of course, knew the angle they wanted to sell).
Favorite example was when Warner/DC couldn't get what became "Superman Returns" started, hired Tim to do "something" with it, and kicked him back out again one script later, saying to the direct effect of, "WHY did we hire him back again after Batman Returns?--Remember how depressing that was?" ;)
To 9:45 AM. A little late in the day but......You need to proof-read your posts. And also you need to write in complete sentences. I assume you think that I think that I could do better if given the chance. You also think that Burton's success over the years is the result of him bangin some glorified title-holder of an unstated sex. Was that over the years, or just a one-time thing that got his foot in the door? From what I understand, is that his movies are made by different studios, not just one. Whatever you think, it doesn't matter beyond the immediacy of you. He has a number of films under his belt, that had a lot of tremendous talent employed. He's made some incredible images in each and any film. He's done it, shall continue to do it and will always be a wonderous freak. If you have done anything, other than work on projects, collect the paycheck for those projects, and dream that you'd like to do a something, an ANY something, we'd like to see it.
Grammar police?? REALLY?
Dude, c'mon. That's soooo 2005. You just make yourself look like a douche when you do that.
this discussion has completely derailed off topic. time to move on.
Thank you, topic police. Now that you have declared this discussion officially closed, can I have your permission to make a comment anyway?
In an industry where the money is always looking for a sure bet and is petrified to take a chance on something truly creative and original, Tim Burton can always be counted on to push the envelope. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but that's true of playing it safe, as well. The "sure things" are just as likely to fall flat.
He is always going for it creatively, which is an act of incredible courage in a medium where the stakes are so high. He deserves admiration and respect for that no matter what you think of this individual piece or that one.
Are all the babies done crying yet?
Uh. Tim Burton has been making high-profile, successful live action features for a quarter century.
Few live action directors have his cache of longevity. (What's Michael Cimino doing now, hmmm?)
Trash Tim all you like. He's still one of the most bankable talents in the biz.
"Are all the babies done crying yet?"
Apparently not.
Good for Tim, its a solid film and maybe his least creepy. Perhaps thats why families embraced it as well. I'm sure Disney is thrilled.
I'm delighted that somebody is getting rich.
However, the only lesson this teaches me is, if you hope to get rich, you'd best get out of the animation business.
Just want to add: "if you hope to avoid dying poor, you'd best get out of the VFX business."
Animators may not get rich, but they do have IAPs, pensions and health insurance in their old age. VFX artists, not so much.
-- VFX lurker
'if you hope to get rich, you'd best get out of the animation business.' Not true in many ways. You have to work hard at it. Its been a long long long time since I've been in a Union shop. All throughout, I got what the benefits had to offer. And there are benefits that will pay off in the future because of it. And as for the present, I always have a place to go and hang around (with more and more strangers, but still lots of my coworkers). And as the work slowly comes back into town, I'm here to pick it up. So I might not be awfully rich right now, in terms of money, I have a place to be. So I'm pretty lucky, and know a good few of us who are and would agree. Screw us, all of us, you big money men who take advantage, but we are the ones who pull the projects off. Should there come a day when we have the uppper-hand again, God dam us for not taking advantage of it and pooling together to cut the riff-raff you are all experiencing now.
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